Egg-O-Naut C

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby starpug » June 3rd, 2010, 1:59 pm

Littleboy wrote:What would happen if it goes out of site and then comes back in a few minutes latter and lands nearby? Would it be when it lands or first goes out of site?

First goes out of site. Your scenario is highly unlikely, when it's caught in an updraft big enough to carry it high enough to get it out of sight, you're probably not gonna see it again.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby AlphaTauri » June 3rd, 2010, 2:03 pm

What's a typical time (mid-pack for a competitive state) for a backslider? If you know, I'd like times both with and without a parachute.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby starpug » June 3rd, 2010, 2:31 pm

AlphaTauri wrote:What's a typical time (mid-pack for a competitive state) for a backslider? If you know, I'd like times both with and without a parachute.

Backsliders seem to peek out in the high 20s lower 30s, if you got really good I might foresee 40s. Egg o naut times should be similar to those that come out of bottle rocket, so you're probably gonna need times upwards of 40 seconds consistent for a win in a decently competitive state.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby amerikestrel » June 3rd, 2010, 6:23 pm

starpug wrote:
AlphaTauri wrote:What's a typical time (mid-pack for a competitive state) for a backslider? If you know, I'd like times both with and without a parachute.

Backsliders seem to peek out in the high 20s lower 30s, if you got really good I might foresee 40s. Egg o naut times should be similar to those that come out of bottle rocket, so you're probably gonna need times upwards of 40 seconds consistent for a win in a decently competitive state.

Wait, then why would you want to use a backslider if the national times were several minutes?
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby starpug » June 3rd, 2010, 6:25 pm

amerikestrel wrote:
starpug wrote:
AlphaTauri wrote:What's a typical time (mid-pack for a competitive state) for a backslider? If you know, I'd like times both with and without a parachute.

Backsliders seem to peek out in the high 20s lower 30s, if you got really good I might foresee 40s. Egg o naut times should be similar to those that come out of bottle rocket, so you're probably gonna need times upwards of 40 seconds consistent for a win in a decently competitive state.

Wait, then why would you want to use a backslider if the national times were several minutes?

The only reason you would is if parachutes were illegal
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby mosloudo » June 4th, 2010, 12:30 am

I am looking at the Solon parachute. It is really big.
Estimating assuming the bottle holding the egg is 4" dia.:
Inflated dia. = 6'+8"
Assuming perfect hemisphere:
Flat dia. = 10'+6"

Anyone know the actual size?
Was it the largest chute at nats?
What was the biggest parachute posted in this thread?

Thanks to the photographer.
(I think it was Rocketman, but it only credits Dark Sabre so it's ambiguous - could be Dark Sabre or Rocketman or anybody sending it to him?)

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby starpug » June 4th, 2010, 3:54 am

mosloudo wrote:I am looking at the Solon parachute. It is really big.
Estimating assuming the bottle holding the egg is 4" dia.:
Inflated dia. = 6'+8"
Assuming perfect hemisphere:
Flat dia. = 10'+6"

Anyone know the actual size?
Was it the largest chute at nats?
What was the biggest parachute posted in this thread?

Thanks to the photographer.
(I think it was Rocketman, but it only credits Dark Sabre so it's ambiguous - could be Dark Sabre or Rocketman or anybody sending it to him?)

I had a 6' 6" flat parachute a brought to nats, I've never measured it inflated (and now I can't cause I threw it out at nats). Neither of my rockets deployed their chutes at nats due to some untested last minute modifications failing, but I was getting my big parachute to deploy consistently in practice. I was never able to get it to deploy that high, but you will see as soon as my videos of some of my launches are uploaded to the image gallery.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby rocketman1555 » June 5th, 2010, 7:34 am

mosloudo wrote:I am looking at the Solon parachute. It is really big.
Estimating assuming the bottle holding the egg is 4" dia.:
Inflated dia. = 6'+8"
Assuming perfect hemisphere:
Flat dia. = 10'+6"

Anyone know the actual size?
Was it the largest chute at nats?
What was the biggest parachute posted in this thread?

Thanks to the photographer.
(I think it was Rocketman, but it only credits Dark Sabre so it's ambiguous - could be Dark Sabre or Rocketman or anybody sending it to him?)


From what I saw while they were launching, Solon (which is no los if spelled backward :roll: ) had about a 6' diameter chute, it really wasn't that big.

The largest one that I recall was New Trier, I think it was a little larger than Solon's, so somewhere in the 7-8' range.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby mosloudo » June 5th, 2010, 12:25 pm

Oh OK. I guess that means they used a smaller bottle to hold the egg, so it looks like the chute is bigger.

And New Trier's cone is actually slightly wider than the 2 liter bottle.

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby rocketman1555 » June 5th, 2010, 12:37 pm

mosloudo wrote:Oh OK. I guess that means they used a smaller bottle to hold the egg, so it looks like the chute is bigger.

And New Trier's cone is actually slightly wider than the 2 liter bottle.


I wasn't doing it based on measurements off the image, I was just guesstimating from what I saw at the competition, so I may be wrong.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby starpug » June 5th, 2010, 7:57 pm

rocketman1555 wrote:
mosloudo wrote:I am looking at the Solon parachute. It is really big.
Estimating assuming the bottle holding the egg is 4" dia.:
Inflated dia. = 6'+8"
Assuming perfect hemisphere:
Flat dia. = 10'+6"

Anyone know the actual size?
Was it the largest chute at nats?
What was the biggest parachute posted in this thread?

Thanks to the photographer.
(I think it was Rocketman, but it only credits Dark Sabre so it's ambiguous - could be Dark Sabre or Rocketman or anybody sending it to him?)


From what I saw while they were launching, Solon (which is no los if spelled backward :roll: ) had about a 6' diameter chute, it really wasn't that big.

The largest one that I recall was New Trier, I think it was a little larger than Solon's, so somewhere in the 7-8' range.

I can't believe I had a bigger parachute then Solon :/
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby mosloudo » June 13th, 2010, 12:19 am

:idea:
Too late now but,
Anybody tried a dethermalizer?
http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/ ... tter04.pdf
I just skimmed the article, I think I get how it works: rubber bands slowly pull something through silly putty, and then once it pulls through, a catch is released, letting go of some of the lines to the parachute so it collapses, effectively turning it into a streamer.

By using a dethermalizer on practice launches, the egg holding section may be prevented from drifting too far away.

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby rocketman1555 » June 13th, 2010, 11:12 am

It seems like that would be more effective for model rockets, I'm not sure how well it would work for water rockets, or if it is necessary. You can always wrap a rubber band around the parachute lines so that it will act as a streamer all the way down, but you can still see if it deploys or not.
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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby mosloudo » June 13th, 2010, 3:17 pm

Yes, that could work, but then, stopping the parachute from opening fully on purpose also prevents you from discovering some problems that could interfere with full deployment of the parachute when intended.

And the dethermalizer plan in the article seems difficult because it's miniaturized - but if you don't need to make it so small, it could be easier to build and use. When used in place of an egg on practice launches, the dethermalizer unit just has to be the same or smaller size and mass than an egg, and the difference made up by adding weight.

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Re: Egg-O-Naut C

Postby calgoddard » June 16th, 2010, 10:50 am

In response to the post above, 40 seconds for a SciOly backslider flight duration is extremely unlikely. Troy's first place time at the SoCal State finals in 2004 was 27 seconds. It was a perfect design and a perfect flight under ideal conditions. I have witnessed hundreds of SciOly backslider launches and have never seen a flight longer than Troy's gold medal flight, even at Nationals in 2005. I am talking about Troy HS of Fullerton, California, and that high school has been the National overall champion seven times as I recall.

I don't want students to be disappointed if they don't get 40 second backslider flights. Any flight time over 15 seconds was typically very competitive for a 1L or 2L backslider bottle rocket.

Before the Egg - O - Naut event, when parachutes were allowed in the Bottle Rocket event, the rules required that the entire rocket be recovered with the parachute to obtain max points. Times above 40 seconds in the old Bottle Rocket event were extremely rare, even at the most competitive competitions. This was true even though the old Bottle Rocket event did not require the launch and recovery of an egg. A complete 2L bottle rocket weighs much more than an "egg capsule" under the Egg - O - Naut rules.

Any flight time over 20 seconds was competitive in the old Bottle Rocket event when parachutes were allowed. Don't start thinking you are a failure if you are not getting one minute flight times if the 2011 Bottle Rocket event rules are similar to the old Bottle Rocket event rules that allowed a parachute. Such a flight would require a lucky encounter with a major thermal. I recall that Troy (CA) got over one minute at Nationals in the late 90's.

I have no connection with Troy HS (CA) but have great respect for its SciOly program and its students.


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