Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

starpug
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 932
Joined: April 5th, 2008, 6:51 pm
Division: Grad
State: ME
Location: Waterville, Maine

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby starpug » June 26th, 2010, 6:38 am

Sumo bots looks dope but we don't have it at our states.
It's gonna be an actual event next year.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 3:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby ichaelm » July 13th, 2010, 10:47 am

It seems to me that there are two main categories of design philosophies for the physical structure of the robot: heavy or light. Does anyone have any opinion / insight / experience about this?

AlphaTauri
Staff Emeritus
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 829
Joined: September 11th, 2009, 1:41 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: 04h 35m 55.239s, +16° 30′ 33.49″
Contact:

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby AlphaTauri » July 13th, 2010, 8:28 pm

My initial thoughts (having never done this event before) are that a heavy robot will make it harder for your opponent to push you out of the ring but might also limit speed. On the other hand, a light robot can move faster than a heavy one and you'll win in a draw under NYSO Trial rules, but also it's easier for your opponent to push you around. Hmm...what if you had a light robot, but with a brake of sorts to prevent your opponent from pushing you anywhere, like rubber stoppers attached to an arm that can fold out?

Or you could do this, but I think they'd DQ you for it.

Also, I have a question, what kinds of things do teams use to force their opponents out? Wedges, stuff to poke your opponent with, just ramming them with your sumo bot?
Hershey Science Olympiad 2009 - 2014
Volunteer for Michigan SO 2015 - 2018

]\/[ Go Blue!

User avatar
fmtiger124
Member
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: March 8th, 2009, 3:59 pm
Division: Grad
State: NY

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby fmtiger124 » July 14th, 2010, 6:17 am

I found that most common was some sort of wedge or surface that you could have your opponent end up driving up onto you and you then carry them out of the ring (a disadvantage of fast moving bots you can move too fast and end up on the other bot) or they would move in and try to pick the opponent up with some sort of really low surface. I did see a few that were just ram them out (like ours :| ) but I'm not really sure how they worked...our biggest problem if i remember correctly was it drove to fast and they kept driving it accidentally out of the ring also, lot's of wedges don't really have a side that's good for pushing....you'd have to somehow out maneuver the wedge and get behind it. As far as stuff to poke your opponent with I haven't seen anything like that and I don't think it would be too effective.
Image

User avatar
haven chuck
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 343
Joined: April 28th, 2007, 2:35 pm
Division: C
State: PA
Location: Strath Haven

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby haven chuck » July 14th, 2010, 8:10 am

Does anyone happen to know how common ties are? As in, do they happen frequently (and thus it would be worth preparing to try to win the tiebreaker), or is the tiebreaker just in the rules for the rare occasion that there will be a tie (and so the tiebreaker isn't worth too much consideration over other things)?
2010 Can't Judge a Powder- NATIONAL CHAMPIONS
2010 Science Crimebusters- 3rd in the NATION

User avatar
jazzy009
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 1:12 pm
Division: Grad
Location: AJAX Chat

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby jazzy009 » July 14th, 2010, 9:22 am

It seems to me that there are two main categories of design philosophies for the physical structure of the robot: heavy or light. Does anyone have any opinion / insight / experience about this?
Very deep, ich.
Yes those would be the main ideas when building this device under the trial rules. I hope they change a bit, though. For nats, the winning teams took the "heavy" approach (I believe, NY correct me if I'm wrong). However, there were others (such as my team) that went for the "light" approach. The guys on my team won the first few matches simply by running around the other opponents and hitting them occasionally so as not to be DQed. But, as I have already said, the winner (and top two, I think) were both the "heavy" approach.

Now let's take a look at the new "medium" approach. Lighter than heavy so you can run around the heavy guys, heavy enough to push around the lighter guys. All of that would involve a bit of luck though because you wouldn't be quite as fast as the light guys.
I don't even know why I'm explaining this...
Call me coach.

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 3:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby ichaelm » July 14th, 2010, 10:21 am

There are many tactical designs, but I can only think of 2 simple ones: wedge and ramming. Then there are many possible complicated tactical designs: lifting, hammering, etc. The majority or robots will probably be simple. And in a match between a wedge and a ramming robot, I am pretty sure a good wedge will almost always win. But this is assuming both are equal speeds. If one is significantly faster, I think the slow robot has no chance. By significantly I mean by a factor of 3 or something. So my idea of a good simple robot would be a fast wedge.

It is impossible for me to consider every possibility for complicated designs. But at least for now I'm not think about that yet.

In order to make a fast robot it needs to be light. But when you make a robot lighter, you lose traction proportionally. So I think the good robots are going to have wide wheels to compensate.

I think you only need to worry about the tiebreaker if your robot is slow. Fast robots will finish the match quickly.

This is all just my speculation btw. I have not built a sumo bot yet (completely).

Also jazzy's idea makes sense; maybe it's better to compromise between fast and heavy.

User avatar
lllazar
Member
Member
Posts: 839
Joined: November 19th, 2009, 7:20 pm
Division: C
State: IL
Location: Probably at my laptop, multitasking while on AJAX chat....

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby lllazar » July 14th, 2010, 12:47 pm

It seems to me that there are two main categories of design philosophies for the physical structure of the robot: heavy or light. Does anyone have any opinion / insight / experience about this?
Very deep, ich.
Yes those would be the main ideas when building this device under the trial rules. I hope they change a bit, though. For nats, the winning teams took the "heavy" approach (I believe, NY correct me if I'm wrong). However, there were others (such as my team) that went for the "light" approach. The guys on my team won the first few matches simply by running around the other opponents and hitting them occasionally so as not to be DQed. But, as I have already said, the winner (and top two, I think) were both the "heavy" approach.

Now let's take a look at the new "medium" approach. Lighter than heavy so you can run around the heavy guys, heavy enough to push around the lighter guys. All of that would involve a bit of luck though because you wouldn't be quite as fast as the light guys.
I don't even know why I'm explaining this...
I volunteered and was actually proctoring the Sumo Bot event at nats, mainly for experience since itll prob be an event this year, and i'll be doing it if it is.

The top two bots were NY bots. They were fast and relatively heavy (not anywhere near the 2 pound limit but a little more than a pound). From watching competition, ill say this much - if your gonna make a super light bot, give it up, you have no chance of beating a fast wedge. You also have to consider the fact that the top two were from NY, where this was an actual event and has been for the past 5 years or something....the kids doing the event were experienced and i have to say they were much better at driving than most of the other competitors. In this competition, if your looking for consistency, a simple, fast wedge that's relatively heavy (1 - 1.3 pounds) with an experienced driver can you get you far.
2011 Season Events~

Fossils (Regionals ~1st) (State ~6th)
Towers (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd)
Helicopter (Regionals -3rd gahhh) (State ~5th)
Wind Power (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd TIERED!)

Hooray for getting everything i wanted?

User avatar
ichaelm
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 3:10 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Location: CWRU, Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby ichaelm » July 14th, 2010, 2:11 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience! I realize you can't just build for the minimum weight; you'll just get bumped out of the ring instantly, unless your opponent is really slow (don't count on it).

An another note, how do any of you plan on controlling motors? If not some kind of kit.

User avatar
jazzy009
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 1:12 pm
Division: Grad
Location: AJAX Chat

Re: Sumo Bots B/C [Trial]

Postby jazzy009 » July 14th, 2010, 4:36 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience! I realize you can't just build for the minimum weight; you'll just get bumped out of the ring instantly, unless your opponent is really slow (don't count on it).

An another note, how do any of you plan on controlling motors? If not some kind of kit.
Definitely a kit, and as for pace, I believe 1st and 2nd were relatively slow. I remember a youtube video of NYSO Trial finals, the winner was a beast box.
In most finals under these rules, I imagine, you will see extremely large robots with extremely small and versatile ones.

...I can't find it, didn't look too hard, but I thought it was fairly easy to find.
Call me coach.


Return to “2010 Build Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest