FAI F1D

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Brucester
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FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 16th, 2010, 9:58 pm

Hey everyone, although this is not really a Science Olympiad related topic, there was an F1D Indoor Free Flight demonstration at Solon's invitational this year, and it interested me....A LOT. If anyone has any contact information that would be great because I'm really trying to get involved into this competition. This is just another great thing Science Olympiad has pointed me towards, and I think Wright Stuff is really made to push you towards bigger and more competitive indoor free flight competitions. I know since I started Wright Stuff I've gotten into Radio-Controlled planes as well as building balsa models at my own house. The main thing is, any contact info on any FAI F1D flyers would be awesome!

Thanks,
Brucester
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby calgoddard » February 17th, 2010, 1:01 am

Yes F1D planes are incredible to watch in flight, but also incredibly difficult to build and trim.

You have to build very, very, very light, and trim perfectly. Just building the rolled motor stick can take many, many hours. You have to select the very best 1/64 balsa sheet out of many, many possible candidates.

First try mastering Wright Stuff airplanes. That class has a seven gram minimum weight.

Once you can consistently break 3 minutes in a twenty foot gym with a Wright Stuff plane, try building a Penny Plane. That will take a few months or years to master. It has a 3.1 gram minimum weight. You should be able to break six minutes in the same gym.

Then try to master the EZB class, a much more difficult plane to build and trim than a Penny Plane because there is no minimum weight for an EZB airplane. These airplanes can fly for twenty minutes in a high ceiling site. If you can master EZB, then you are ready for your first attempt at building an F1D airplane.

An F1D plane has a much larger wing and stab than a Wright Stuff plane yet it typically weighs about 1.2 grams. The record for an F1D flight is over one hour.

You can make contact with F1D modelers and other indoor duration free flight rubber powered modelers via the Indoor Construction group on Yahoo.

Good luck.

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby jander14indoor » February 17th, 2010, 3:26 am

Try to contact whoever did the F1D demo for you, the NE Ohio area has a number of very strong indoor flyers more than willing to give time to students. If you traveled a long way to Solon, give us a general idea where you live, there may be an active club in your area.

And while I generally agree with calgoddard, there are several examples of good WS fliers who make an almost direct leap to F1D, several who've gone on to win the Jr World championship. It is challenging but doable with the right info and some mentoring.

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby eta150 » February 17th, 2010, 6:19 am

With F1D, the competitions are generally in the limited class, which flies for 40 minutes. The unlimited class has had 2 planes ever that have broken 1 hr.
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 17th, 2010, 1:51 pm

Thanks everyone for the super quick replies! Wasn't aware of all those different competitions. I'm going to see what I can do about doing pennyplanes and those other ones first. I'm in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area, I've come in contact with several RC clubs (by the way, anyone interested in Wright Stuff should get into RC planes.....great, fun, and can be challenging hobby). I haven't had the chance to meet any indoor free flight communities in Pittsburgh. The hobby shops have been help in finding RC clubs, but there really doesn't seem to be much of a free flight craze at that shop, and they had little knowledge on any clubs. Anyways, any information on anyone in any free flight competitions I could contact about a club in Pittsburgh would be great, not just F1D, though I'm betting the club does the pennyplanes, F1D, etc..

Thanks as always,
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby blue cobra » February 17th, 2010, 3:47 pm

I'm in the same boat. Thanks to Wright Stuff, I'll probably be doing indoor free flight for the rest of my life. There is a model plane club near me, thankfully. Also, my Wright Stuff mentor now builds micro R/C planes, with like a 2.5" wing span, that I'd love to try. You mentioned doing R/C planes, so would you know of a good place to start?
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 17th, 2010, 5:45 pm

It's always nice to have a mentor such as your coach, but talk to your local hobby shop about clubs and when they meet indoors for flying something that small, although your gym works just perfectly, it's always nice to fly with some company. Check out a site called plantraco, they specialize in really micro aircraft like you talked about. Their stuff is expensive, but state of the art. They use metal actuators instead of servos. If you're looking for a bigger plane for outdoor flight, I recommend the Super Cub LP, but talk to your local hobby shop, they're very knowledgeable. Anyways, If you're at the national tournament contact me, because they have a huge barn to fly in, and the day before I might bring some of my smaller (18" wingspan) planes to fly! That goes for anyone interested in watching what a great hobby it is!

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2011 Nationals:
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby jander14indoor » February 17th, 2010, 6:08 pm

Noooo, noooo, not the evil rc (never capitalize)! Stay with a True Challenge, Free Flight (Always Capitalize)!

NOTE, above meant (mostly) as a joke, whatever floats your boat (or lifts your plane as the case may be).

VERY few hobby shops know anything about Free Flight any more. Most of the commerce and information has moved to the internet.
Its too challenging for most, and as I'm sure you've already found, a little tricky to find convenient places to fly.
And, frankly, there's just not much money in Free Flight. Prices for rc have come down lots recently, the cheap rc toys are under a hundred, park flyers in the $100 to $200 by the time you get the accessories necessary to fly. But serious rc stuff climbs into the thousands FAST.
As a semi hard core Free Flight afficianado I only have three tools more than $100 after many years as an adult at the hobby. A rubber stripper, a very fancy micrometer balsa stripper, and a nice scale. The rubber strippers about the only MUST have among the three for serious indoor flyers. Scales have gotten cheaper, and there are perfectly adequate balsa strippers that will do most of what mine will doe for tens of dollars. As to planes, the only ones I have with more than a few dollars in materials are large outdoor Free Flight jobs, and we're still talking under $100 for those.

As to help in the Pittsburgh area, I'm pretty confident there's a Free Flight club nearby. Suggestion, join the Yahoo groups Free Flight Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflightml and Indoor_Construction http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indoor_Construction and ask. You might also try the Small Flying Arts forum http://www.smallflyingarts.com/

Good luck,

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby blue cobra » February 17th, 2010, 6:32 pm

It's always nice to have a mentor such as your coach, but talk to your local hobby shop about clubs and when they meet indoors for flying something that small, although your gym works just perfectly, it's always nice to fly with some company. Check out a site called plantraco, they specialize in really micro aircraft like you talked about. Their stuff is expensive, but state of the art. They use metal actuators instead of servos. If you're looking for a bigger plane for outdoor flight, I recommend the Super Cub LP, but talk to your local hobby shop, they're very knowledgeable. Anyways, If you're at the national tournament contact me, because they have a huge barn to fly in, and the day before I might bring some of my smaller (18" wingspan) planes to fly! That goes for anyone interested in watching what a great hobby it is!

Brucester
Yes, thanks. He didn't start with planes that small though. He started out with 20+ gram outdoor planes around Wright Stuff size, built with components from store-bought R/C cars, balsa wood, and tissue. He then progressed down to a 390 mg plane with a 3.125" wingspan, custom milled prop spinning at 36k RPM, brushless motor, and a carbon fiber airframe with pieces no larger than 0.008", all built and coded by him. I hope to follow a similar path.

And jander14indoor, that doesn't mean I'll give up Free Flight ;)
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 17th, 2010, 8:14 pm

Haha, I like doing both though! Thanks so much for the info. Anyways, anyone know of any good kits to start a penny plane? Just to get me started, of course mods will be necessary, but I need the rules, and a kit the shows me what they're doing to get planes that light.
@Blue Cobra: That sounds awesome! Carbon fiber is a huge on every rc model (notice the noncapital), whether being used as a motorsitck, stiffening control surfaces and wings/stab, and going though the wings to support them!

Thanks,
Brucester
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7th - Storm the Castle
7th - Towers
22nd - Experimental Design

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby jander14indoor » February 18th, 2010, 7:18 am

There are a number of penny plane plans on line if you search. You want a limited penny plane to start.

F1D.BIZ or A2ZCorp (same business) have several penny plane kits ranging from beginning/easy to higher performance/harder at http://www.a2zcorp.us/store/Category.as ... er+Powered

Thanks,

Jeff Anderson
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 18th, 2010, 12:51 pm

Thanks, looks good and surprisingly cheap. $17 for a limited penny plane kit. Still need to buy some sand paper though. Thanks for the info Jeff Anderson. Are the penny planes using rolled motorsticks or any other part that has to be steamed? If so, I'll have to ask my coach to use his wood steamer.

Thanks,
Brucester
2011 Nationals:
3rd - Bottle Rockets
7th - Storm the Castle
7th - Towers
22nd - Experimental Design

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby jander14indoor » February 18th, 2010, 2:55 pm

For Limited Penny Plane, rolled motor sticks not allowed. For Unlimited Penny Plane its about the only way to hit weight and be competitive.

If you are getting serious, I suggest you check the rules for yourself, AMA keeps them on-line at http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/even ... flight.pdf depending on others to interpret the words without checking for yourself is a path to disappointment. The Penny Plane and Limited Penny Plane rules are on page 6.
For F1D, you need to look at the FAI Sporting Code http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/system ... ght_10.pdf page 16.

And the low price is why I love Free Flight. If you built from your own materials and spent $17 you have materials for several planes!!

Jeff Anderson
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Re: FAI F1D

Postby Brucester » February 25th, 2010, 9:47 pm

Alright, so I got the kit for the Penny Plane, and it came with condenser paper. It seems harder to work with and heavier than the film..... Which should I use? The film's thinner than normal, but I think it can withstand the slow moving prop's little thrust.

Thanks,
Brucester
2011 Nationals:
3rd - Bottle Rockets
7th - Storm the Castle
7th - Towers
22nd - Experimental Design

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Re: FAI F1D

Postby WrightStuffMonster » February 25th, 2010, 10:37 pm

Alright, so I got the kit for the Penny Plane, and it came with condenser paper. It seems harder to work with and heavier than the film..... Which should I use? The film's thinner than normal, but I think it can withstand the slow moving prop's little thrust.

Thanks,
Brucester
The Ultrafilm you use for SO should be fine for Penny Plane. But if you really want some lighter stuff Ray Harlan sells (or used to I have not looked for a while) Super ultrafilm which is about 60-70% as thick as the normal ultraflim. If you go beyond that Tim Goldstein sells OS film on his webstore https://www.a2zcorp.us/store/ but its a bit tricker to work with. There are a couple films beyond that in lightness but I am not sure how large of a supply there is of it. I would not worry to much about the film. On a normal covering job the glue weights as much as the film (for me at least). I did not use a lighter film until I made an unlimited penny plane.
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