Nationals results

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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Tue May 25, 2010 2:18 am

I had to register to express my sincere thank to this forum. I helped coach kids of Marie Murphy on WS. As beginners last year, all the information and tips we learned here (particularly the posts from jander, great thanks) did help our planes tremendously to fly over 5 min this year last Saturday.

As for flying height, our plane flew up to maybe about ~80, almost touching the hanging metal (?) wires from middle skylight. The planes would certainly hit the top if we had used higher pitch prop.
It is hard to be perfect ... in our case, our kids could not find their lubricant bottle after checking in :oops:. They had to use whatever left-over lubricant in an old bag they brought in. They told me they put in 1,870 winds (I know, not a lot) in the 0.083" rubber for the 5:04 flight. Great experience for the kids.

Great thanks again for this forum.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby leetx » Tue May 25, 2010 5:21 pm

Congratulations on a great competition! You broke 5:00, probably the only team in the country this year. Tell us how you guys did it.

Now come to Johnson City for the US Indoor Nationals and fly this plane. No bonus will be used at this competition. There will be other planes at the US Nationals that can break 5:00.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Tue May 25, 2010 11:07 pm

A friend of the team took some photos of the plane, here they are:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkleeman/tags/wrightstuff/
Nothing special about the plane, as you guys can see. Kids and coaches spent most the time trimming, collecting data, modifying and back to trimming again in a 20-ft height gym with partial motors, and we mainly worked on trimming wing location, attack angles of wing/stab, prop pitch ... all of those covered in the past posts. If enough folks are interested in a video of the flight last Saturday, I probably can get somebody to upload it somewhere.

I was initially expecting more teams could fly over 5 min... there are so many good flyers out there. Probably not many of them could come to national.

The Marie Murphy team is particularly happy about the best ever overall team results .... 5th place. Considering this team of a small school from 6th to 8th grade (no 9th grade) with about 80 kids in each grade, this is definitely the highlight of their science olympiad history.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby jgan96 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:21 pm

Amazing! Geez I have a lot to work on to get there... i maxed out at a little under 3:20 :? .

Does anybody know what model/kit was used to win? Like Peck-Polymers or Freedom Flights etc?

Somebody should post a video. ;)
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Re: Nationals results

Postby eta150 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:25 pm

MMP's was a freedom flight model. F.F. designed it after JC Booth's national winning plane from last year.
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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:40 pm

eta150 wrote:MMP's was a freedom flight model. F.F. designed it after JC Booth's national winning plane from last year.


Does our plane look that much like a freedom flight one? I believe our JV team built their planes with freedom flight kit (very good kit by the way), but varsity team did not use kit at all.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby eta150 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:10 pm

sorry :oops:
but yeah, it looks really similar to one. After a second look though, I can definitely see the difference.
Last edited by eta150 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:22 am

eta150 wrote:sorry :oops:
but yeah, it's looks really similar to one. After a second look though, I can definitely see the difference.


No problem. Now after taking a closer look of some photos with airplanes built from kits, they do look similar. One varsity kid last year did try the earlier kit and was quite disappointed with it so this year we only used home built planes. It is impressive how much better this year's kits are. If we started from kits this year, it could have saved us lot of time. But then where would all the fun (tear+joy) be !

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Re: Nationals results

Postby eta150 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:32 am

I know what you mean, I use a kit largely for the supplies, not necessarily the design. Whatever you did, it definitely worked. I think I actually met you at nats, and what I was most impressed with was how you could carve pieces out of the motor stick and still fly without torque bowing.
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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:40 am

ok, if you got nothing better to do for 6 minutes, the video (up to 720p HD) of entire flight is now available at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqt-FsekeqE

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Re: Nationals results

Postby jander14indoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:03 pm

Nice flight.

PS, trivia, the gentleman in the floral hawaiian shirt at the very end of the video is Dave Zigler, the proprietor of Freedom Flight Models.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby jgan96 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:12 pm

MMP wrote:ok, if you got nothing better to do for 6 minutes, the video (up to 720p HD) of entire flight is now available at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqt-FsekeqE


Nice flight! And nice plane; I'm not much into modding specially made kits like for SO, but with the cheap ones like Guillow, I modded it a lot and got some good air out of it actually.

Out of curiosity, why did your team stand up and release in that manner? Normally I see people crouch or bend down and release their plane over close to the ground.

:idea: Not to criticize, but your plane climbs quite fast. :idea: It stayed up at its peak nicely however.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby eta150 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:17 pm

I can explain the launch. If you are in a huge building like the armory, and even at peak torque, you can't quite reach the ceiling (like in that flight), then it makes more sense to stand up, so that you can get another ~7 feet of peak height and descent, adding to the time. I think almost all teams were doing this, including me with my ill-fated flight.
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Re: Nationals results

Postby MMP » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:15 pm

jander14indoor wrote:PS, trivia, the gentleman in the floral hawaiian shirt at the very end of the video is Dave Zigler, the proprietor of Freedom Flight Models.


No wonder he went to talk to our coaches after flight and asked if we used Freedom Flight model. We might have disappointed him.

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Re: Nationals results

Postby calgoddard » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:40 pm

MMP - Thanks for posting the amazing video of the 2nd place flight at Nationals. Congratulations to Marie Murphy. I was amazed that the plane did not go "dead stick", i.e. run out of winds, until near the end of the flight.

Also, in further answer to another post, it was very smart to launch the plane from full extension of the arms overhead.

You know the reasons why, but I want to explain to others.

In very high ceiling hight flying sites, you wind to max torque, and don't back off so the plane will climb as high as possible. Many planes experience some motor stick bending and/or stab twist at the beginning of the flight. This can cause positive stab incidence, wide turns, lack of adquate wash - in, etc. You want max altitude at launch in case the plane initially flies in a downward path before the toruqe bleeds off. There is little chance the plane will hit the ceiling so launching from max height is not a problem.

Also, at very high launch torque, the plane can experience prop stall, and "hang" on its prop, i.e. dangle nearly vertically. Max launch height can allow the plane to experience this event yet not touch the ground and still recover.

In low ceiling height flying sites, you often back off torque to get a "no touch" flight, i.e. one that does not hit the celing. You launch from a kneeling position to get the maxium available flying height and there is little chance the plane will experience motor stick bending that will give positive stab incidence and a downward trajectory on launch.


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