National Qualification

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Re: National Qualification

Post by Deeisenberg »

As it has been said countless times before, even if you think that individual qualification in any form is a good idea it is not practical. For one thing it is a bad idea, and it really goes against the spirit of olympiad. Also you people all forget that olympiad doesn't have an endless money pit they can delve into at any time. The venues that host olympiad cannot all take an enormous increase in the number of competitors. I mean even if it were practical scheduling would become an absolute nightmare, especially with any sort of combination of team and individual. The current system works, it is far better than any of the systems that have been proposed here, and it is far more practical.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by E Edgar »

Ok, here is an interesting idea (that has probably been proposed before) which would not be very different from the current system and (I think) significantly better.

1) Regional and State tournaments are run exactly the same as before
2) At nationals, every State is guaranteed 1 team
3) The top few States (based on enrollment) automatically get an extra team thus increasing the number of teams to 50
4a) The 10 extra slots are chosen at a national wildcard tournament where each state sends one team.
or
4b) There are 5 region tournaments (like midwest, central, west coast, south, east coast) where each tournament sends the top 2 schools to nationals


The wildcard idea is used before State in Indiana and as far as I know it works really well.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by blue cobra »

Sounds interesting, but I think money would become a serious issue. Getting a venue and buying medals for several more multi-state competitions is going to cost a fair bit, not to mention teams getting to the competition. I think the current system is the best in practicality.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by E Edgar »

blue cobra wrote:Sounds interesting, but I think money would become a serious issue. Getting a venue and buying medals for several more multi-state competitions is going to cost a fair bit
As I understand it, many schools are queuing up to hold the national tournament so I would expect they would be interested in holding a region tournament. Also a region tournament would not be too far from any state in the region.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by zyzzyva980 »

But what about the teams? Some teams would only have enough money for one National trip, if there was a Wild-Card round they wouldn't make it to Nats even if they won. It costs a lot of money just for a state in a large state such as say... Kansas (wonder why I picked that one) and the regions you suggested are very broad.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by 3slh9 »

For costs, you have to consider hotels, transportation, food, etc. Even for our state, we have to spend the night. For the 2 days it costs our school around $2500 and that is with splitting the cost of the bus with another school. Nationals is even more. I don't know if you have heard about the economy lately but when people don't have jobs and school budgets around the country are getting cut, $2500 is a lot. It also isn't fair to pass that cost onto the team members because most families don't have that kind of extra money hanging around and it would immediately eliminate anyone in a lower income area.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by blue cobra »

Yup, I wouldn't be surprised if next year we don't have a Sci Oly team (livid, but not surprised). If we had to go to an extra tournament, I not sure we'd be able to. And I know I don't have enough money to support myself; I can hardly afford to build my events. As I've mentioned before, I think the current system isn't perfect, but it's the best option.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by E Edgar »

blue cobra wrote:If we had to go to an extra tournament
But look, you wouldn't HAVE to go to this competition: it's only for nationals qualification. Also, while many teams do have fund-raising issues, my experience is that those teams that are good enough to make it to nationals generally do not.
3slh9 wrote:it also isn't fair to pass that cost onto the team members because most families don't have that kind of extra money hanging around
But again, that isn't it at all. This would be an OPTIONAL tournament that only the most committed teams would even qualify for. In my experience these types of teams would jump at an extra opportunity to qualify for nationals.


I am aware of the fact the Science Olympiad would be extremely hesitant to change their tournament system (and not without reason) but I'm not sure these arguments really make a lot of sense.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by zyzzyva980 »

Our team is good enough for nationals. That's the one that posted three posts up. No, blue cobra's right, this is the most efficient way. It's not perfect, but it's the best option.
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Re: National Qualification

Post by Phenylethylamine »

E Edgar wrote:
blue cobra wrote:If we had to go to an extra tournament
But look, you wouldn't HAVE to go to this competition: it's only for nationals qualification. Also, while many teams do have fund-raising issues, my experience is that those teams that are good enough to make it to nationals generally do not.
3slh9 wrote:it also isn't fair to pass that cost onto the team members because most families don't have that kind of extra money hanging around
But again, that isn't it at all. This would be an OPTIONAL tournament that only the most committed teams would even qualify for. In my experience these types of teams would jump at an extra opportunity to qualify for nationals.


I am aware of the fact the Science Olympiad would be extremely hesitant to change their tournament system (and not without reason) but I'm not sure these arguments really make a lot of sense.
Why do you assume that committed teams wouldn't have any issues with lack of funds? Commitment isn't created by affluence, and school funds for teams are often decided by administrators who don't care how committed the team is, and simply think of it as another club. Even in my school district, which is far from lacking in funds, it's like pulling teeth to get money for competitions from the district (keep in mind that a B and C division team from our district went to nationals last year, so this is definitely a "committed" team we're talking about).
Let me put it this way: saying "you wouldn't HAVE to go to this competition: it's only for nationals qualification." is like telling a sports team, "you don't HAVE to go to the playoffs: that's just for qualifying for the finals." It's more than a little condescending. There are many national-level teams that have difficulties with fundraising.
If such a tournament were to exist, it would offer teams with more access to funds an extra chance to qualify for nationals over other teams that didn't have the money to compete. This is clearly unfair- Science Olympiad is not meant to revolve around socioeconomic status of the region from which a team originates. Even within a given school, some of the cost would most likely be passed onto the students' families, creating a socioeconomic bias within the team based on who could pay and who couldn't.
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