Shock Value B

Locked
User avatar
sean9keenan
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: May 10th, 2007, 3:31 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by sean9keenan »

tuftedtitmouse12 wrote:
andrewwski wrote:Not very difficult at all. Assuming it's an electrical resistance heater and supplied 120V (standard outlet voltage), just use the simple equation . P=1500 W and V=120 V. Solve that and you get R=9.6 ohms.
but it didn't tell us the voltage that was supplied....
If that's the case you have to assume that the voltage is 120V, since that's standard AC voltage, otherwise the problem is impossible to do, perhaps state your assumption. Or you have to express it in variable form.

"Electrical plugin heater" Does imply to me that it plugs into the wall though, which if you're in america (or Japan/some other places) is approximately 120V
SoCal Event Supervisor. H2S2O for ever. Competed in Builds & Physics events
User avatar
tuftedtitmouse12
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: January 3rd, 2011, 12:26 pm
Division: Grad
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by tuftedtitmouse12 »

sean9keenan wrote:
tuftedtitmouse12 wrote:
andrewwski wrote:Not very difficult at all. Assuming it's an electrical resistance heater and supplied 120V (standard outlet voltage), just use the simple equation . P=1500 W and V=120 V. Solve that and you get R=9.6 ohms.
but it didn't tell us the voltage that was supplied....
If that's the case you have to assume that the voltage is 120V, since that's standard AC voltage, otherwise the problem is impossible to do, perhaps state your assumption. Or you have to express it in variable form.

"Electrical plugin heater" Does imply to me that it plugs into the wall though, which if you're in america (or Japan/some other places) is approximately 120V
AC??? but im div b..so wouldn't it b dc??
peter, peter, peter
JSGandora
Member
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by JSGandora »

Yeah, household outlets are AC, however we can assume they are DC and that won't change anything that we need.

Also, thanks once again for your response! When you have a Wheatstone Bridge, will the movement point to the left or to the right when there is a higher potential on the left junction than on the right one? I am thinking the current flows to the right in this case thus making the movement on the galvanometer go to the right.
User avatar
sean9keenan
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: May 10th, 2007, 3:31 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by sean9keenan »

As to the AC voltages you can assume that it's DC voltage because the value for AC voltage we normally chose to write down is the value that allows us to treat it just like DC voltage. It's a special value called the "RMS value" which is actually different then the peak of the AC voltage, which is around 170V if I remember correctly.

If I understand your question correctly then if there is a higher voltage on the left junction as compared to the right junction then the current through the middle resistor will be to the right, which depending on how you have your galvanometer hooked up will register as a positive current or negative curent.

Also a good problem related to wheatstone bridges: If all the resistors are 10 ohms, INCLUDING the middle resistor (that's labeled null in your diagram) what is the equivalent resistance of the circuit, without using delta-wye transformations. (I did try and explain it in my last post, dunno if it got through though)
SoCal Event Supervisor. H2S2O for ever. Competed in Builds & Physics events
JSGandora
Member
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by JSGandora »

Hmm, this is probably wrong but this is what came to mind at once when I read this problem:

We have the same potential at both the left and right junctions that connect the resistor in the middle, this means no current will go through the middle resistor. Therefore we only need to account for the other four resistors by pretending the middle one isn't there. This is just two parallel branches which makes a total resistance of .

In addition, will the Shock Value test involve transformers and/or transistors?
User avatar
sean9keenan
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: May 10th, 2007, 3:31 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by sean9keenan »

Yup, that's right, that's pretty much the point that I was trying to get across. Also I don't think transistors are covered in the rules. As to transformers, I would argue that the AC applications of transformers are outside the scope of this event, but the DC applications of transformers (although limited) might show up. Did you know that a lot of cars have transformers in them in order to start their cars? But the voltage of the car battery isn't AC, what does the transformer do?
SoCal Event Supervisor. H2S2O for ever. Competed in Builds & Physics events
andrewwski
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 962
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 7:36 pm
Division: Grad
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Shock Value B

Post by andrewwski »

sean9keenan wrote:As to the AC voltages you can assume that it's DC voltage because the value for AC voltage we normally chose to write down is the value that allows us to treat it just like DC voltage. It's a special value called the "RMS value" which is actually different then the peak of the AC voltage, which is around 170V if I remember correctly.
RMS means Root-Mean Square, which is the peak voltage divided by . So if we take 120V as the RMS value, we get 170. If AC is out of the scope of this event though, so is that calculation.
If I understand your question correctly then if there is a higher voltage on the left junction as compared to the right junction then the current through the middle resistor will be to the right, which depending on how you have your galvanometer hooked up will register as a positive current or negative curent.
Best way to approach this problem would be to draw the currents arbitrarily - whichever way you wish. Then, if you get a negative current, you know it actually goes the other way. Naturally, though, the current flows from higher to lower potential, so yeah, left-to-right.
sean9keenan wrote:Yup, that's right, that's pretty much the point that I was trying to get across. Also I don't think transistors are covered in the rules. As to transformers, I would argue that the AC applications of transformers are outside the scope of this event, but the DC applications of transformers (although limited) might show up. Did you know that a lot of cars have transformers in them in order to start their cars? But the voltage of the car battery isn't AC, what does the transformer do?
Highly, highly doubt anything like this would be within the scope of the event. The Kettering ignition system would be the only example of this that I can think of, and I doubt one would be expected to know it for the event. But then again, I'm not the one that writes the events.
User avatar
sean9keenan
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: May 10th, 2007, 3:31 pm
Division: Grad
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by sean9keenan »

andrewwski wrote: Highly, highly doubt anything like this would be within the scope of the event. The Kettering ignition system would be the only example of this that I can think of, and I doubt one would be expected to know it for the event. But then again, I'm not the one that writes the events.
Perhaps, but over preparing never hurt. Not to mention the principles behind the fast change in voltage inducing a current and creating a higher voltage across the spark plug isn't something that I think it outside of the scope of this event. Maybe not directly under the DC circuits section but a combination of the circuit theory and the magnetism that they have to know.
SoCal Event Supervisor. H2S2O for ever. Competed in Builds & Physics events
JSGandora
Member
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by JSGandora »

Could you tell me more about...
sean9keenan wrote:...the principles behind the fast change in voltage inducing a current and creating a higher voltage across the spark plug...
please? You've caught my interest. :)
space scientist
Member
Member
Posts: 56
Joined: December 18th, 2010, 1:54 pm
Division: C
State: TX
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Shock Value B

Post by space scientist »

sean9keenan wrote:I do believe that the rules say you dont need to know much about inductors as they apply in circuits, but you do need to know about electromagnets. For instance you probably won't be asked to solve for the current through an inductor as a function of time. They can definitely ask you about the strength of the magnetic field or to draw the field lines.

I would recommend reading this: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... lemag.html It covers a lot of the material you'd need! You might also want to do some reading up about how toroids are used as cores of electromagnets
Please may you explain some of the information in simpler terms than what on the website.
"The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion." John Lawton
"If you can imagine it, you can achieve it. If you can dream it, you can become it." William Arthur Ward
Locked

Return to “2011 Lab Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests