Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

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gneissisnice
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby gneissisnice » July 22nd, 2011, 6:49 pm

kjhsscioly wrote:do calcite and aragonite occur outside of recrystallized mollusk shells, and other fossils?


Yes, so they're not strictly organic minerals. Technically, coquina, fossiliferous limestone and oolitic limestone can't occur outside of fossils (since by definition they're made from shell fragments and/or oolites), but those would be more organic things on the list. Actual organic mineraloids like amber or jet weren't on the list last time.
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby quizbowl » July 24th, 2011, 7:15 am

Would they provide HCl for us?
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Luo » July 24th, 2011, 8:18 am

quizbowl wrote:Would they provide HCl for us?

HCl was specifically prohibited in the rules, so unless that's changed, no. However, supervisors may provide written descriptions of a substance's reactivity with HCl.
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby gneissisnice » July 24th, 2011, 12:42 pm

Luo wrote:
quizbowl wrote:Would they provide HCl for us?

HCl was specifically prohibited in the rules, so unless that's changed, no. However, supervisors may provide written descriptions of a substance's reactivity with HCl.


Actually, that's not true. You're prohibited from bringing your own HCl, so you couldn't even pack it if you wanted to, but the event supervisors can choose to put bottles of HCl at certain stations. It's, of course, always dilute and you'd really only see it at stations with calcite or dolomite. They can also just write "this substance does/does not effervesce when HCl is added", like you said, but they can certainly provide HCl for some stations if they want to.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Luo » July 24th, 2011, 2:57 pm

gneissisnice wrote:
Luo wrote:
quizbowl wrote:Would they provide HCl for us?

HCl was specifically prohibited in the rules, so unless that's changed, no. However, supervisors may provide written descriptions of a substance's reactivity with HCl.


Actually, that's not true. You're prohibited from bringing your own HCl, so you couldn't even pack it if you wanted to, but the event supervisors can choose to put bottles of HCl at certain stations. It's, of course, always dilute and you'd really only see it at stations with calcite or dolomite. They can also just write "this substance does/does not effervesce when HCl is added", like you said, but they can certainly provide HCl for some stations if they want to.

I have the 2008 rule sheet in front of me, which states that "HCl will not be provided, nor may it be brought to or be used during the competition. Written descriptions as to how a specimen might react were it to be tested with HCl may be provided." It's the same as in the trial event rules part 3d.
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby gneissisnice » July 24th, 2011, 3:27 pm

Luo wrote:
gneissisnice wrote:
Luo wrote:HCl was specifically prohibited in the rules, so unless that's changed, no. However, supervisors may provide written descriptions of a substance's reactivity with HCl.


Actually, that's not true. You're prohibited from bringing your own HCl, so you couldn't even pack it if you wanted to, but the event supervisors can choose to put bottles of HCl at certain stations. It's, of course, always dilute and you'd really only see it at stations with calcite or dolomite. They can also just write "this substance does/does not effervesce when HCl is added", like you said, but they can certainly provide HCl for some stations if they want to.

I have the 2008 rule sheet in front of me, which states that "HCl will not be provided, nor may it be brought to or be used during the competition. Written descriptions as to how a specimen might react were it to be tested with HCl may be provided." It's the same as in the trial event rules part 3d.


Really? Because I've DEFINITELY been to competitions where there was HCl provided at certain stations.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Luo » July 24th, 2011, 3:32 pm

gneissisnice wrote:
Luo wrote:I have the 2008 rule sheet in front of me, which states that "HCl will not be provided, nor may it be brought to or be used during the competition. Written descriptions as to how a specimen might react were it to be tested with HCl may be provided." It's the same as in the trial event rules part 3d.


Really? Because I've DEFINITELY been to competitions where there was HCl provided at certain stations.

Huh, interesting. Maybe that rule wasn't very well-followed by event supervisors. I suppose it's not that big a deal if all teams are provided with the same materials. Still, it seems to be technically against the rules. :?
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby bearasauras » July 24th, 2011, 4:10 pm

Haha, must be. Seems like the rules going back to 2002 all prohibited the use of HCl regardless of being provided by participants or event supervisors.

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Cheesy Pie » July 25th, 2011, 7:34 am

I don't think it will be provided. We don't have proper safety gear, and it could ruin the furniture in the room.
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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby gneissisnice » July 25th, 2011, 12:52 pm

Cheesy Pie wrote:I don't think it will be provided. We don't have proper safety gear, and it could ruin the furniture in the room.


Calcite will react with very dilute HCl; you could dump it on your skin and you wouldn't even feel a thing (not that I'm suggesting you do that, mind you).

But it's still a whole lot easier to just put a written description than to have everyone drop HCl on the same sample.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Cheesy Pie » July 25th, 2011, 2:56 pm

Yeah then it would be rigged towards those who visit the station early.
100% of deaths are somehow caused by science.
Don't be a statistic.
Don't do science.

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby fossilgirl13 » August 13th, 2011, 8:02 pm

So, is Rocks and Minerals going to be like fossils-- in the sense that there will be a binder, field guide, and identification? In that case, does anyone know any good field guides? I have the audobon one, but I'm not sure it's the best one out there... :|
Rocks and Minerals, Disease Detectives, Designer Genes

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby Kokonilly » August 14th, 2011, 5:21 am

fossilgirl13 wrote:So, is Rocks and Minerals going to be like fossils-- in the sense that there will be a binder, field guide, and identification? In that case, does anyone know any good field guides? I have the audobon one, but I'm not sure it's the best one out there... :|

There are 17 pages of discussion and a wiki page to answer your question. Please read them!

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby fossilgirl13 » August 14th, 2011, 6:58 pm

Kokonilly wrote:
fossilgirl13 wrote:So, is Rocks and Minerals going to be like fossils-- in the sense that there will be a binder, field guide, and identification? In that case, does anyone know any good field guides? I have the audobon one, but I'm not sure it's the best one out there... :|

There are 17 pages of discussion and a wiki page to answer your question. Please read them!

Thank you kindly for that information, I had no idea that these resources existed.
Rocks and Minerals, Disease Detectives, Designer Genes

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Re: Preliminary: Rocks and Minerals

Postby abator » August 14th, 2011, 9:24 pm

Wow Those pages on the wiki have a lot of info. I can't believe I never looked at them before! :D

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