TSL

yousmellchinese123
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TSL

Post by yousmellchinese123 »

Hey guys,
I know that the sample TSL is posted on the soinc website, but I have a minor question.
In the sample the points for the timer and final task are +Variable Points (Just to generalize).
We just leave it as so on our TSL right? We do not specify because it probably is going to change anyways, Well for our machine haha.
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Re: TSL

Post by Primate »

yousmellchinese123 wrote:Hey guys,
I know that the sample TSL is posted on the soinc website, but I have a minor question.
In the sample the points for the timer and final task are +Variable Points (Just to generalize).
We just leave it as so on our TSL right? We do not specify because it probably is going to change anyways, Well for our machine haha.
You don't even need to list points on your TSL. Rule 4a says the TSL only needs to include number, letter, and description.
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Re: TSL

Post by Uncle Fester »

I've told teams to add points, not because I think it's required, but because there are event sups who still think it is (be safe), and also because it's a failsafe that helps prevent missed tasks, too many tasks claimed, typos and switched columns-- and helps out the event sup.

This is a far better setup than years past when paperwork was far too convoluted for the kids-- I kept complaining that it was info I rarely used and lazy sups needlessly depended on.

Nobody has ever lost points over it (from me, that is)
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yousmellchinese123
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Re: TSL

Post by yousmellchinese123 »

Haha, thanks for the clarifications guys.
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Re: TSL

Post by Flavorflav »

Uncle Fester wrote:I've told teams to add points, not because I think it's required, but because there are event sups who still think it is (be safe), and also because it's a failsafe that helps prevent missed tasks, too many tasks claimed, typos and switched columns-- and helps out the event sup.

This is a far better setup than years past when paperwork was far too convoluted for the kids-- I kept complaining that it was info I rarely used and lazy sups needlessly depended on.

Nobody has ever lost points over it (from me, that is)
Hmm. I told my kids to leave the points out, because if they are off by a second then the TSL is not 100% accurate. You think it is safer to keep them in?
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Re: TSL

Post by fleet130 »

This one REALLY seems open to interpretation by individual event supervisors.
Primate wrote:Rule 4a says the TSL only needs to include number, letter, and description.
Paragraph 4.a states: "Tasks in section 4.a, intended to earn points, must be numbered and identified by letter in the TSL and device." It does not say this is the "only" information required.

Paragraph 4 indicates a Sample Task List can be found on the national website.

Paragraph 6.b awards 25 points if TSL uses the format specified. It could easily argued that the sample (on the website) is the format that must be followed and, since the sample includes points, they are required on the TSL.

Either way (points or no points) you stand a chance of losing the points for paragraph 6.b and 6.c, depending on how the supervisor at your tournament interprets the rules.
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Re: TSL

Post by Primate »

fleet130 wrote:This one REALLY seems open to interpretation by individual event supervisors.
Primate wrote:Rule 4a says the TSL only needs to include number, letter, and description.
Paragraph 4.a states: "Tasks in section 4.a, intended to earn points, must be numbered and identified by letter in the TSL and device." It does not say this is the "only" information required.

Paragraph 4 indicates a Sample Task List can be found on the national website.

Paragraph 6.b awards 25 points if TSL uses the format specified. It could easily argued that the sample (on the website) is the format that must be followed and, since the sample includes points, they are required on the TSL.

Either way (points or no points) you stand a chance of losing the points for paragraph 6.b and 6.c, depending on how the supervisor at your tournament interprets the rules.
Sorry for the ambiguity there. I meant that the rules only specify that the number and letter are included--I didn't mean to imply that the rules specifically excluded points.

I'm submitting a clarification about this. Amazing how such a tiny omission can be such a hassle.
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Re: TSL

Post by fleet130 »

Clarifications from the national organization really only apply to the national tournament. Other tournaments may, or may not, follow them.

One year, as an event supervisor, I received (and published) a clarification from the national organization in October. At the state tournament in March, a team brought in a copy of an email (dated 7 days earlier) from the national organization stating the opposite of the answer I had published in October. To be fair to other teams, I could not honor the email clarification.

To be sure of the interpretation you should ask the event organizers of each tournament you will compete in. This also makes more people aware of the issue and increases the possibility of it being addressed for future year's rules.
Information expressed here is solely the opinion of the author. Any similarity to that of the management or any official instrument is purely coincidental! Doing Science Olympiad since 1987!
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Re: TSL

Post by Flavorflav »

fleet130 wrote:Clarifications from the national organization really only apply to the national tournament. Other tournaments may, or may not, follow them.

One year, as an event supervisor, I received (and published) a clarification from the national organization in October. At the state tournament in March, a team brought in a copy of an email (dated 7 days earlier) from the national organization stating the opposite of the answer I had published in October. To be fair to other teams, I could not honor the email clarification.

To be sure of the interpretation you should ask the event organizers of each tournament you will compete in. This also makes more people aware of the issue and increases the possibility of it being addressed for future year's rules.
New York holds national clarifications as binding, so long as they are published at least two weeks prior to competition, although they may be explicitly waived by the event supervisor, again so long as the waiver are published at least two weeks prior to competition.
fleet130 wrote:Either way (points or no points) you stand a chance of losing the points for paragraph 6.b and 6.c, depending on how the supervisor at your tournament interprets the rules.
Well, that's not really a very good situation, is it? Perhaps that issue could be addressed in future. I am aware that no one can control what an individual supervisor will do, but if there were a clear official policy at least you would have a chance to appeal.
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Re: TSL

Post by Primate »

fleet130 wrote:Either way (points or no points) you stand a chance of losing the points for paragraph 6.b and 6.c, depending on how the supervisor at your tournament interprets the rules.
Well, that's not really a very good situation, is it? Perhaps that issue could be addressed in future. I am aware that no one can control what an individual supervisor will do, but if there were a clear official policy at least you would have a chance to appeal.[/quote]
I really don't think there's a need to list points, either, since event supervisors will likely have memorized point values--if not before the event starts, they will after grading one or two. It just introduces error.

What's the point of a national clarification if it just applies to nationals (disregarding New York)? It's not all that easy to get in touch with your local event supervisor.
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