Designs and Kits

[jander14indoor]

As usual, this is NOT the place for official rulings. Those MUST be submitted to the NSO web-page.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[Frogger4907]

Hello All,

I apologize for not responding to these questions sooner. As the designer of the River City Rocket I would argue that since the instructions for the kit say not to glue the tubing to the spars that it is not integral to the rotor but serves as a bushing (and therefore part of the connecting process)for the shaft.

As has been mentioned an official ruling would be in order.

Bill Carney

But the tube its self isn't actually connecting two separate "functioning components" it only serves as a place for the music wire (Which connects the two) to travel threw as it connects to the top of the rotor.

[Lily Essence]

I'm confused with all this talk about the materials...

I have a heli that uses the Ikara Prop Hanger(a small plastic piece) and the top spinning blades are connected to another small plastic piece (the tiny part above the hook in that picture) that goes into the hanger.

The biggest quesiton I have is: what defines a "rotor"?

I've only put a loose general definition to rotors being anythign that spins... the top mylared(is this a word?) blades are removeable but the inner plastic piece is attached to the blades by a piece of metal. I didn't consider the ikara parts to be part of my rotor but... does this plastic end up being included in my "rotor" and therefore my heli is not in specs? I have not been told by my proctors at three different contests that it isn't correct, but I would like to know y'alls opinion on this...

Sorry if I'm not that clear on the heli thing. This is also why I'm not in Write It Do It...

[thewinner]

I think a rotor is something that spins to provide lift.

[aubrey048]

I'm confused with all this talk about the materials...

I have a heli that uses the Ikara Prop Hanger(a small plastic piece) and the top spinning blades are connected to another small plastic piece (the tiny part above the hook in that picture) that goes into the hanger.

The biggest quesiton I have is: what defines a "rotor"?

I've only put a loose general definition to rotors being anythign that spins... the top mylared(is this a word?) blades are removeable but the inner plastic piece is attached to the blades by a piece of metal. I didn't consider the ikara parts to be part of my rotor but... does this plastic end up being included in my "rotor" and therefore my heli is not in specs? I have not been told by my proctors at three different contests that it isn't correct, but I would like to know y'alls opinion on this...

Sorry if I'm not that clear on the heli thing. This is also why I'm not in Write It Do It...

The rules state that you can't use rigid plastic on any part of your helicopter.

[chalker7]

The rules state that you can't use rigid plastic on any part of your helicopter.

That's not true. The rules distinguish between "functional" components and the rest of the helicopter. The functional components cannot be made of rigid plastic. Now, we can have a debate over what counts as "functional" or not, and this isn't the place for official rulings, if you want 100% certainty, submit an official clarification through soinc.org. However, I do know the intent of the rule (to force teams to construct their own rotors) and I don't think that the Ikara bearing falls into that category (thus, it is likely legal). That being said, I doubt anyone would consider any part of an Ikara prop that is part of the moving rotor (the hub or the blades) to be legal.

[wlsguy]

The rules state that you can't use rigid plastic on any part of your helicopter.

That's not true. The rules distinguish between "functional" components and the rest of the helicopter. The functional components cannot be made of rigid plastic. Now, we can have a debate over what counts as "functional" or not, and this isn't the place for official rulings, if you want 100% certainty, submit an official clarification through soinc.org. However, I do know the intent of the rule (to force teams to construct their own rotors) and I don't think that the Ikara bearing falls into that category (thus, it is likely legal). That being said, I doubt anyone would consider any part of an Ikara prop that is part of the moving rotor (the hub or the blades) to be legal.

My explaination to the kids in an attempt to meet the rules has been:

If it is part of the helicopter that is supposed to rotate, it's functional. The exception is the motor stick, it must be balsa.
If it's not supposed to rotate, it's not functional (like the bearings, ballast, etc). The exception is the prop wires, they are obviously wire.

Maybe next year the soinc website can post a sketch of an example helicopter with the material requirements to make it easier to understand.
Just part of my wish list....

Thanks.

[jarrred_1415]

I don't think kits make a difference. The top teams will be using a custom design. The kits are for those teams who, without a starting point, may not have a helicopter. The event is more about testing and modification anyway. It is essentially a "design of experiments" where different parameters are tested to determine the best performance. The kit only provides the "control".

The argument favoring kits was actually made by someone opposed to them with the following statement.

... We used a kit to get an idea of how the event works and then started custom building which has given us far better results.

this event is far more complicated than most realize. the options for design are endless. so by starting for a kit you have a way knowing for sure that it will fly. or you can guess at what to build and have a helicopter built out of popsicle sticks and a standard like 2 inch rubber band. and have no clue what went wrong.

let the experinced F1D builders figure it out. and then modify the kit to make it better

[kjhsscioly]

I don't think kits make a difference. The top teams will be using a custom design. The kits are for those teams who, without a starting point, may not have a helicopter. The event is more about testing and modification anyway. It is essentially a "design of experiments" where different parameters are tested to determine the best performance. The kit only provides the "control".

The argument favoring kits was actually made by someone opposed to them with the following statement.

... We used a kit to get an idea of how the event works and then started custom building which has given us far better results.

this event is far more complicated than most realize. the options for design are endless. so by starting for a kit you have a way knowing for sure that it will fly. or you can guess at what to build and have a helicopter built out of popsicle sticks and a standard like 2 inch rubber band. and have no clue what went wrong.

let the experinced F1D builders figure it out. and then modify the kit to make it better

There is a reasonable amount of material out there on the internet, where you can get reasonable bearings as to how to start

[chia]

Then again, we started from a kit. I definitely ended up learning from it... I eventually built a helicopter that performed better + placed at state. I think I wouldn't have known where to start without one (well, maybe I could have tried, based on Wright Stuff knowledge, but even then in 8th grade we learned the basics from a kit).