New York 2011

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Re: New York 2011

Post by Flavorflav » March 22nd, 2011, 4:18 pm

Coach Marz wrote:
personasaurus rex wrote:
andrewwski wrote:Can you confirm that the track was actually the right size? My former team apparently had an issue where their vehicle wouldn't fit on the track. The vehicle was 2-17/32" wide (I can confirm this, measured it myself), which should fit on the 2-9/16" wide track just fine, however, they said the vehicle did not fit onto the track (don't know much more as I wasn't there). I know the dimensions of the vehicle didn't leave much of a margin, but it still should have fit. But I wasn't there to see what they were struggling with either.
Uh no haha I don't do MagLev, so I wasn't even competing, I just watched it. However, whatever size that track is, it seemed to have worked wonders =P
Hi All,
I ran MagLev at states and want to answer some of your questions. The best time was a little over 1.2 seconds and all the other top scoring teams were probably within a second or more of that. The car and test were both worth 100 points and you needed to do well on both to medal.
In regard to the track- I brought two tracks that were of slightly differnt width. Both were provided by Kelvin ( the specified manufacturer for the competition) so I knew students would come in with slightly different sized cars. I let students choose whatever track fit their car best and make adjustments as needed. Both tracks were legal. I had multiple coaches come up and measure the track because they had concerns, but all were satisfied when they measured the track. I only remember one car that did not fit on the track, which was over 2-9/16 when we measured. In the end I think it was the chosen weight of 310 grams, that caused a lot of cars not to get down the track. Also, just to let you know, both tracks had recorded times under 2.0 seconds so I do not have concerns regarding magnets or any other problems.
Hope this helps and Good Luck.

Mr. Marz
Mr. Marz, could you tell me if the magnets were individual 3/4" blocks laid end-to-end or a 1/2" flexible strip?

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Re: New York 2011

Post by adambaine » March 22nd, 2011, 4:50 pm

winneratlife wrote:
quizbowl wrote:
Teammate wrote:First of all, we aren't complaining because we did poorly. This is the best our team has done in years. We aren't appealing because we did poorly in an event that we usually do well in, but because we believe that a grading error based on a minor mistake on the test may have compromised our exam. In any case, we believe that the whole event should probably just be rescored seeing as the placement should be based on the knowledge of the event, and not on petty printing mistakes. If the rescoring of this one event could mean that our school really did qualify for nationals, then as of now, New York could potentially be sending the wrong teams to represent the state, when they really should be sending the two best teams. If they rescore it and we still got 33rd, then atleast we'd understand, but there's no knowing until something is done about this.
Word to yo mama.
So, you're going to just go up to the elated 2nd placers, smack them, and be like "Guess what, you just got screwed?"

If you allow rescoring, then you either send 3 or 4 teams, or you get stuck telling a team that deserved to go that they can't. The judges don't want to do any of those, so they just don't rescore to avoid the whole problem in the first place. If you were a judge, what would you do? Objectively. Would you really be willing to rescore, find out you screwed up, and tell 2nd place they have to give their stuff back and you're revoking their nats trip?

Now what if you were the 2nd place team?

Stop putting yourself at the center of the universe and look at it from everybody's perspective. Rescoring it only really helps you.

FIrst of all, I'm appalled with the way you would speak to a team that has seniors such as myself on it that worked harder than they ever have to get second place only to have it taken from them and will never have another chance.
Secondly, Ward Melville, the "elated second 2nd placers" have qualified for nats in 2010, 2009, 2005, 2004, 2001, 2000, and 1994. The last time Syosset went to nats was in 1986. The chances are that almost everyone on the Ward Melville team will get a chance to go to nationals at one point in their science olympiad careers while this is likely our (Syosset's) last chance to go for a long time.

Stop thinking you know everything and look at it from everyone's perspective.

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Re: New York 2011

Post by adambaine » March 22nd, 2011, 5:08 pm

sciencegirl23 wrote:
Phenylethylamine wrote:.

The one event that we did have a problem with- not in scoring, but in setup- was Mission. I understand that it might be difficult to orchestrate 30-minute setup times for all the teams on the day of competition, but it's not reasonable, with such a volatile event, to expect teams to set up the night before and then give them only five minutes the next day. As far as I can tell, the rules don't account for this. Splitting the time like this adds unnecessary stress, as well as presenting actual logistical problems- electrical wiring can't be left to run all night, and so on. We would almost certainly have done better than 23rd without the fractured setup time; in the chaos of the five-minute final setup, an alligator clip was left undone, and some of our electrically powered steps didn't run.
However, technically this was the same for all teams, so there's not really any grounds for appeal.
Congrats on your win, it was well deserved (: I had a problem with misson too.. If we were just informed of the set up issue, it would have gone a lot smoother. Another problem with misson, was that it was extremely crowded. Just as we finished setting up, another team knocked into our misson accidentally and it went off :shock: We tried to take out all the batteries..but we werent fast enough.. the whole thing except for the last couple steps went off perfectly without any touches :( Our misson was pretty much ruined in the process..the other team told the judges and we were given a little extra time to re-set up. We couldnt repair 5 of the steps.. which meant 5 touches and 16th place :cry:


I am so speechless right now. Our mission ran almost perfectly. The only problem was that our sand timer started too early and the judge was arguing that because it says that the sand timer is second to last on our tsl, everything in between is bogus and we don't get points for any of it. After going through the rules, showing him that tsl accuracy is only worth 25 points, the sand timer actually started after this task so we should get points for this, this, this, this, and this, he started saying okay, you guys are right, you get points for those things, and that our mission looked really really impressive except for our one hiccup, scores come out and we got 18th. The man lied to us to shut us up.


I'm really starting to hate sci oly.

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Re: New York 2011

Post by Flavorflav » March 22nd, 2011, 5:14 pm

adambaine wrote: FIrst of all, I'm appalled with the way you would speak to a team that has seniors such as myself on it that worked harder than they ever have to get second place only to have it taken from them and will never have another chance.
Secondly, Ward Melville, the "elated second 2nd placers" have qualified for nats in 2010, 2009, 2005, 2004, 2001, 2000, and 1994. The last time Syosset went to nats was in 1986. The chances are that almost everyone on the Ward Melville team will get a chance to go to nationals at one point in their science olympiad careers while this is likely our (Syosset's) last chance to go for a long time.

Stop thinking you know everything and look at it from everyone's perspective.
But you don't actually know that anything was taken away from you, do you? All you have is a suspicion, really, founded in a wish. I'm also not sure how relevant it is that WM has gone before. If that argument holds water, why don't we just bar WM and Fayetteville from next year's competition?

You guys did great and everybody agrees that the competition is unfortunately somewhat less than perfect, but now you are just whining. You need to knock it off.
adambaine wrote: I am so speechless right now. Our mission ran almost perfectly. The only problem was that our sand timer started too early and the judge was arguing that because it says that the sand timer is second to last on our tsl, everything in between is bogus and we don't get points for any of it. After going through the rules, showing him that tsl accuracy is only worth 25 points, the sand timer actually started after this task so we should get points for this, this, this, this, and this, he started saying okay, you guys are right, you get points for those things, and that our mission looked really really impressive except for our one hiccup, scores come out and we got 18th. The man lied to us to shut us up.


I'm really starting to hate sci oly.
They did that to us in Junkyard, but I'm not sure he was wrong on this one. Was it just that your TSL was inaccurate, or the the sand timer get triggered by accident? If the latter, then you have a real problem - you can't score parallel tasks.

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Re: New York 2011

Post by Coach Marz » March 22nd, 2011, 5:22 pm

Mr. Marz[/quote]
Mr. Marz, could you tell me if the magnets were individual 3/4" blocks laid end-to-end or a 1/2" flexible strip?[/quote]

Flavor,
It is a 3/4" flex strip that comes with the track. A 1/2" strip would be too small and is out of specs as dictated on the website. The flexible strip has been working fine, although I have heard from others that the older the strip gets the more magnetism it loses. I will probably put down a new strip next year if I run the event again.

http://www.newyorkscioly.org/SOPages/COTResources.html

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Re: New York 2011

Post by personasaurus rex » March 22nd, 2011, 5:27 pm

pjgscioisamazing wrote:I don't do this year's dynamic, but i think Earthquakes and Volcanoes was better. Less out there... I don't know how to describe it :lol: Last year's nationals event was really really hard, and very time consuming. All it takes to write a good event is putting time into it, which most event supervisors unfortunately don't do
Actually I don't think I can agree with you there. Earthquakes and Volcanoes was such a limited topic, so again and again they pretty much tested us on the same information. Over my two years of doing earthquakes/volcanoes, I found that studying for it was basically reading the same information over and over again. However, with freshwaters, there's almost an infinite amount of information you can find, and therefore it COULD be a much better event in which the extent of your knowledge could be tested. However, many test makers choose to keep it simple anyways >:(
2012: Forensics, Dynamic Planet, Sounds of Music, Water Quality, Write It Do It

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Re: New York 2011

Post by pjgscioisamazing » March 22nd, 2011, 7:21 pm

personasaurus rex wrote:
pjgscioisamazing wrote:I don't do this year's dynamic, but i think Earthquakes and Volcanoes was better. Less out there... I don't know how to describe it :lol: Last year's nationals event was really really hard, and very time consuming. All it takes to write a good event is putting time into it, which most event supervisors unfortunately don't do
Actually I don't think I can agree with you there. Earthquakes and Volcanoes was such a limited topic, so again and again they pretty much tested us on the same information. Over my two years of doing earthquakes/volcanoes, I found that studying for it was basically reading the same information over and over again. However, with freshwaters, there's almost an infinite amount of information you can find, and therefore it COULD be a much better event in which the extent of your knowledge could be tested. However, many test makers choose to keep it simple anyways >:(
But there was also much much knowledge that could be tested for E&V as well, but as with most Dynamic, it was kept simple. It all depends on the test, ie. last year's national. That test showed me just how intense an E&V test could be.
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Astronomy, Rocks & Minerals, MagLev, Dynamic Planet (E&V), Anatomy (Circulatory), Reach for the Stars, Meteorology (Climate), Remote Sensing, Disease Detectives, Metric Mastery, Pentathlon, Balloon Race, Tower Building

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Re: New York 2011

Post by gneissisnice » March 23rd, 2011, 8:12 am

pjgscioisamazing wrote:
personasaurus rex wrote:
pjgscioisamazing wrote:I don't do this year's dynamic, but i think Earthquakes and Volcanoes was better. Less out there... I don't know how to describe it :lol: Last year's nationals event was really really hard, and very time consuming. All it takes to write a good event is putting time into it, which most event supervisors unfortunately don't do
Actually I don't think I can agree with you there. Earthquakes and Volcanoes was such a limited topic, so again and again they pretty much tested us on the same information. Over my two years of doing earthquakes/volcanoes, I found that studying for it was basically reading the same information over and over again. However, with freshwaters, there's almost an infinite amount of information you can find, and therefore it COULD be a much better event in which the extent of your knowledge could be tested. However, many test makers choose to keep it simple anyways >:(
But there was also much much knowledge that could be tested for E&V as well, but as with most Dynamic, it was kept simple. It all depends on the test, ie. last year's national. That test showed me just how intense an E&V test could be.
Yeah, it depends. At Regionals and States for me a few years back, E&V was basically Regents questions; simple questions on different volcano types, P and S waves, different types of lava, reading seismograms and triangulating the focus, etc.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: New York 2011

Post by quizbowl » March 23rd, 2011, 8:35 am

I heard a rumor that States won't be held at West Point next year. Did anyone else get the story behind that?
2010: 5th in NYS
2011: 4th in NYS
2012: 3rd in NYS
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Re: New York 2011

Post by Flavorflav » March 23rd, 2011, 9:53 am

Thayer and Bartlett are being gutted, so we are out of West Point for at least a couple of years. No news about an alternate site yet.

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