Pennsylvania 2011

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mingtian
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby mingtian » May 2nd, 2011, 7:20 pm

Also amazing tests? is that a bigger joke half of the events are run horribly. Experimental design was testing a slinky and trying to make it go faster. Science O has completely lost all merit of actual scientific achievement and thats why the UsPhO and UsNCO and USAMO are so much better, people cant cheat to get unfair advantages which they do all the time and the competition is well run
crabnebula actually goes to Harriton not Athens...

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby denmarksoccer » May 2nd, 2011, 7:21 pm

Also amazing tests? is that a bigger joke half of the events are run horribly. Experimental design was testing a slinky and trying to make it go faster. Science O has completely lost all merit of actual scientific achievement and thats why the UsPhO and UsNCO and USAMO are so much better, people cant cheat to get unfair advantages which they do all the time and the competition is well run
I think Science Olympiad operates on a completely different plane of commitment than the other competitions for all but the hardest-working teams... For most people, it's more about fun than simply winning.

Anyway, how did we manage to get 14th in Remote when we knew absolutely nothing? Fun stuff.
2010:
Pentathlon-1@ regs, 4@ states, 16@ nationals
Road Scholar-2@ regs, 8@ states, 31st@ nationals
Disease Detectives-2@ regs, 1st@ states, 5@ nationals
Bio-Process Lab- 2@ states, 11@ nationals
Physical Science Lab- 38@ nationals
Team-1@ regs, 2@ states, 19@ nationals

Moving up to C.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby ichaelm » May 2nd, 2011, 7:32 pm

Actually, crabnebula is my teammate, and we are not from Athens. And I don't know about you, but I'd like to stand up for them, and other teams like them. You can't possibly accuse them of cheating. Athens does well in building events every year because their students are great builders. I met some of them on Friday after their performance in Sumo Bots. They ARE great builders. They got 2nd place in Sumo with no coach to help them "cheat" They won mission because of their incredible balloon holding 60 or 70 grams. Their unique balloon device was designed and built by students whom I also met. And that's that. To call them cheaters just because they did well is just wrong. Sorry for sounding abrasive, but I hope I made my point.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby IdahoSciGuy » May 2nd, 2011, 8:11 pm

First of all whoever said that the event was well run clearly is from Athens or something. As probably one of the most seasoned veterans of science o I can say that its becoming a pitiful joke especially when you have schools like Athens. Now this isn't a rant about them however that school is the largest example of why scioly is a joke. Basically what happens is that they somehow end up proctoring every single event and do well in all of those. And the kids are not smart to say the least I have seen them in action especially with building events (this goes for alot of teams where you see them struggling with instructions for how to use them) none of the kids have the capacity to build the stuff and they make a fool of themselves to anyone who really does know what theyre doing
When I was competing, I thought we had the same thing going on here in the B division. The perennial team was St. Josephs. They won almost every year I competed. Their parents coached the events, and more often then naught, they win medals in every single event. However this year they lost, and by lost I mean by a considerable amount(40 points). They have never cheated, as high as my suspicions were when I competed in B div., and in no way did it accomplish anything by saying they cheated. All it shows is that unless the accuser has documented evidence that teams cheated, or the event supervisor edged some scores in favor of their child's team, then said accuser has no leg to stand on.
Also amazing tests? is that a bigger joke half of the events are run horribly. Experimental design was testing a slinky and trying to make it go faster. Science O has completely lost all merit of actual scientific achievement and thats why the UsPhO and UsNCO and USAMO are so much better, people cant cheat to get unfair advantages which they do all the time and the competition is well run
If you still insist teams in PA were cheating, then I dare you to go to Nationals. I went for three years, and never got a medal, not even a ribbon or w/e. In fact, in those three years, my school only medaled once. Every event, it seemed like the same school were going to collect medals. The clinking of the medals was aggravating. No matter what I did, My highest placing was in the 20's. You tell me how you feel when you see that, and I come from a nationally qualifying perennial team.

The fact of the matter is that they studied more than me, they put more effort in than me, and even when I tried my best, I still only got 2/3 of the way there. I have seen people hang their heads in SHAME because they couldn't medal or place high in their event of specialty. And not once, NOT ONCE, did we ever say they cheated. We held our high regards for schools like Harriton, Penncrest, and Grand Haven, and their determination to succeed/hold up expectations. And you know what? When i met people on those teams, they weren't snobs who expected to win. All they wanted to do is have fun, and learn some science: The main goals of the Olympiad itself.

So before you go accusing some school of cheating, think about THEIR dedication, THEIR drive, THEIR determination. In the case with Athens, your claims of cheating could easily be relegated to the fact they had a drive to succeed this year, to take down Penncrest, or possibly even Harriton, and they had the confidence to believe that they could do it. In no way does it mean they cheated. I'm sorry to sound so crass with this, but I made this mistake before. It only brings trouble, and makes you look bad, especially when you cannot prove it. From your claims, you look like nothing more than a sore loser, trying to shift blame and tarnish the names of people who have tried to work hard. I'm sorry, but this is my opinion.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby physicsphan » May 3rd, 2011, 5:56 am

I understand to some that it might seem odd for a team to run multiple events at a competition but sometimes it needs to happen for events to run. I think Athens ran 7 events in NE PA this year. They only did this and were only asked to do this after other teams did not step up to run events. I don't think anyone in NE PA would say it would have been better to have Athens run 1 event and cancel 6 others that teams had worked hard on. If you want to get rid of this you would need coaches who are not currently running events to step up and run an event instead of doing whatever else they are doing all day. I thank Athens for stepping up and doing more than their fair share so that everyone gets to compete.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby biogirl14 » May 3rd, 2011, 12:32 pm

I am another team member of Crabnebula's, and even though we're not from Athens, I find it rather offensive that someone would immediately start making Athens out to be a horrible team. I was in some of the events that they ran at States, and it was all very professional, especially when the judges were dealing with their own team. They also didn't win every event they ran. Accusing another Science Olympiad team of cheating is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I'm sure that it happens sometimes, but most of the people competing in Science Olympiad at relatively intelligent, and intelligence often goes hand-in-hand with integrity. In conclusion, don't accuse other teams of cheating unless you have solid and confirmed proof, and be grateful that Athens was willing to step up and run so many events.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby bam » May 3rd, 2011, 12:42 pm

I think that science olympiad competitions are very well run, but, of course, no competition is perfect. I agree with biogirl14 that it is offensive to Athens, saying all of those things about them. I am not from Athens, and I don't know anyone from Athens, but I believe that it isn't right to accuse a team of cheating, especially if you don't have any proof.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby tweety » May 3rd, 2011, 1:05 pm

That is a little ridiculous. There is a team my team kind of caught cheating but we didn't prove it yet so I am not going to say which team but we only think that because we have seen them doing something they shouldn't have been doing. But just assuming that because the team did well....I would hope nobody would do that to us...we got 1st in the event that our coaches were the event supervisors for and we surely didn't cheat. In fact,we think my coach was probably trying to pick on us and take points off but we wrote it up well and we still managed to win.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby bugsrcool » May 3rd, 2011, 1:28 pm

It is a shame that our states discussion forum has come to this. I personally worked with a coach from Athens throughout the whole day and both of us treated all teams equally. We saw amazing devices all day long and it was clearly evident that all of the top teams knew their devices amazingly well. And their coach did not score their device and I did not score my teams device.

This is high school. Filter what you say before you put it out there to the whole world that you know less than nothing about this amazing school that put their hearts and souls into making it to nationals. Ask anyone on their team how many hours they spent since states last year and I would be hard pressed to find a single student who did not put in over 300 hours of work. Any student from Athens should hold their heads high to the sky in pride for the performance they had and noone should try to bring them down because their team can't seem to find a coach as dedicated as theirs or put in the incredible amount of time it takes to make a strong team. To all the coaches and students from Athens, GREAT JOB!
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby rfeynman » May 3rd, 2011, 3:38 pm

First of all sorry if youre from harriton and got offended that wasn't the intent. And to anyone who says teams dont cheat and that they are how about the fact that I have overheard the coaches and parents there talking about what they did, im not even kidding, at states there was even some adult using a dremel on something from athens, they absolutely do NOT build everything themselves and it didn't take a forensics team to realize that

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby IdahoSciGuy » May 3rd, 2011, 4:14 pm

First of all sorry if youre from harriton and got offended that wasn't the intent. And to anyone who says teams dont cheat and that they are how about the fact that I have overheard the coaches and parents there talking about what they did, im not even kidding, at states there was even some adult using a dremel on something from athens, they absolutely do NOT build everything themselves and it didn't take a forensics team to realize that
If you are accusing teams of cheating because their parents helped them make their machines, then congratulations! You have labeled 99% of all Scioly teams in the nation as cheaters.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby mingtian » May 3rd, 2011, 4:20 pm

First of all sorry if youre from harriton and got offended that wasn't the intent. And to anyone who says teams dont cheat and that they are how about the fact that I have overheard the coaches and parents there talking about what they did, im not even kidding, at states there was even some adult using a dremel on something from athens, they absolutely do NOT build everything themselves and it didn't take a forensics team to realize that
If you are accusing teams of cheating because their parents helped them make their machines, then congratulations! You have labeled 99% of all Scioly teams in the nation as cheaters.
Really? I would think the students would know more than their parents.

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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby IdahoSciGuy » May 3rd, 2011, 4:26 pm

First of all sorry if youre from harriton and got offended that wasn't the intent. And to anyone who says teams dont cheat and that they are how about the fact that I have overheard the coaches and parents there talking about what they did, im not even kidding, at states there was even some adult using a dremel on something from athens, they absolutely do NOT build everything themselves and it didn't take a forensics team to realize that
If you are accusing teams of cheating because their parents helped them make their machines, then congratulations! You have labeled 99% of all Scioly teams in the nation as cheaters.
Really? I would think the students would know more than their parents.
It's his loose argument, really. Define the word "Help". Its a line that no one will be able to define.

EDIT: I somehow just accidentally submitted it......

Anyways, You cannot define a point where "parental help" becomes "too much help". Sure, "my parents built it for me" is kinda an obvious place to say "hold on a sec", but really? It doesn't take a forensics team to know that parental help is natural in a competition where it is the parents prerogative to ensure that their children are learning science, and enjoy the process of learning science.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby butter side up » May 3rd, 2011, 5:07 pm

First of all whoever said that the event was well run clearly is from Athens or something. As probably one of the most seasoned veterans of science o I can say that its becoming a pitiful joke especially when you have schools like Athens. Now this isn't a rant about them however that school is the largest example of why scioly is a joke. Basically what happens is that they somehow end up proctoring every single event and do well in all of those. And the kids are not smart to say the least I have seen them in action especially with building events (this goes for alot of teams where you see them struggling with instructions for how to use them) none of the kids have the capacity to build the stuff and they make a fool of themselves to anyone who really does know what theyre doing
I will agree that not everything went perfectly. however, the only reason Athens was proctering so many events is that nobody else would. a week or so before competition, athens' coach found out that if they didn't proctor them, the event would not be happening. if your event got cut because no one proctered it, what would you think? and, as for saying that "none of the kids have the capacity to build the stuff," that is rude and in most cases untrue. occasionally, there is some problem with the object in question, but that is more often due to a malfunction or a case where the actual builders had to be in another event, and an inexperienced person was forced to take their place.
Please do not use this to bash teams.
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Re: Pennsylvania 2011

Postby AlphaTauri » May 3rd, 2011, 5:20 pm

Seriously, rfeynman, Athens does not deserve the disrespect that you give them. I am not from Athens and have only competed against them once, but they are an outstanding team and deserve to be congratulated, not dissed.

Just because parents help the kids with builds does not mean that the team "cheats", as you so eloquently put it. I had plenty of parental help constructing my Sounds of Music, both for safety reasons and because I needed an extra hand. Also, there are some schools (such as my own) that are either incapable or unwilling to run events at States, and for that reason, some schools (such as Athens) have to step up and proctor multiple events.

When I competed in Div B a couple years ago, I remember many rumors floating around about Sewickley (and there are probably still rumors of the sort floating around about Harriton)...how they were "too good", how they *had* to be having extra help from parents/teachers/coaches/judges, how they supposedly would cheat. Having met several members of Harriton's team and observing some of Sewickley's competitors...those rumors are completely unfounded. Teams do well because they work hard and have a passion for SciO, not because they cheat. As for saying that the people running the build events were incompetent, I'm sure that my team has looked completely incompetent at builds ourselves. One year, both of our usual Trajectory people were unable to do the event at Regionals, and the two people filling in fired the catapult without the projectile in it. It's not only people filling in at the last minute on builds that make mistakes -- our Wright Stuff guy one year set the plane's path on too tight a circle and got hit in the back of the head by it when it turned around (that cost us one of our test flights).

Also, to your comment about other olympiads being better run than SciO: SciO is completely a volunteer competition; we are only able to compete because there are people who willing to spend their weekends dealing with hundreds of teenage science nerds. If you feel that Bio Olympiad or USAMO is better worth your time, go ahead. We'll still be here doing SciO and, more importantly, having fun.
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