Elevated Bridge B/C

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lllazar
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby lllazar » May 31st, 2010, 7:07 pm

AlphaTauri wrote:Too bad there's no one we can ask...it's from one of the NC teams (Arendell Parrot) and I don't think there are many people on here who are from NC.

If I had to venture a guess as to why this bridge won, I'd say it's because it's so simple. Less pieces = less chance of spontaneous failure. Also, it doesn't look like it'd be easy to tip over either, with the legs slanting outwards, so that's something else this bridge has going for it. I have no idea how they made it so light, though. 4.50 grams...are you sure there wasn't an antigravity field or something canceling out some of its weight? :lol:


Man, must be some really light balsa....however, the uhh "style?" of the legs is actually really smart, after all triangles are the strongest structural shapes...props to the team, but 4.5 grams is pretty insane :o
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby eta150 » June 1st, 2010, 4:27 am

There's clearly a LOT of surface area for the glue, which is great, but there are no tensions members (unless the bottom of the top beam acts as tension). I wonder how it held that much.
EDIT: Actually, I analyzed it, and I think the shape of the top beam (it slants up towards the loading block, the bottom is flat), shows that it acts as tension and compression.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby lllazar » June 1st, 2010, 5:13 am

eta150 wrote:There's clearly a LOT of surface area for the glue, which is great, but there are no tensions members (unless the bottom of the top beam acts as tension). I wonder how it held that much.
EDIT: Actually, I analyzed it, and I think the shape of the top beam (it slants up towards the loading block, the bottom is flat), shows that it acts as tension and compression.


Man i wish the kids who made this were on the forum :(

I think it held somewhere in the 12.3-12.4kg range...it was extremely light, 4.5 grams...
2011 Season Events~

Fossils (Regionals ~1st) (State ~6th)
Towers (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd)
Helicopter (Regionals -3rd gahhh) (State ~5th)
Wind Power (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd TIERED!)

Hooray for getting everything i wanted?

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby Balsa Man » June 2nd, 2010, 12:32 pm

Re: the new scoring approach being discussed:
Thanks Bob and Jeff for the good insights on the thinking behind it.
I'm sure lots of folk have opinions on how the rules could/should work. But, for S.O. to work, somebody has to come up a workable set of rules for a lot of different.....made-up events.

In anything competitive, the rules are the rules. The name of the game is to figure out how to win within the rules. That takes understanding of the rules, and the variables in your control - how they do and don't fit within the rules, and the effect of changing them on how you score.

Re: the winning B-Div bridge
Its actually a very good example of what I'm talking about in terms of figuring out how to win within a set of rules.
My hat's off to whoever set off on the path to that design. I suspect a coach (which is fine; that's part of good coaching). If a student did, my hat's really off to them.
Whoever did, they did something really right; backing off, letting go of pre-conceived notions of "how its done"/"how it has been done", looking with fresh eyes at what needed to be done, and educated eyes at what has been done structurally, in bridges and anything else. The broader your knowledge, the more you have to draw from. Applying old ideas/knowledge new ways to new situations-that's exactly where most scientific and engineering breakthroughs come from.
I kick myself for not having done that better myself. There is an interesting analogy from racing. Up until the early 1960s, chassis frames were built using steel tubing. To get good suspension control, the frame needed to be stiff- not bending under cornering/braking/accelerating loads. In a race car, you want it as light as possible. In 1962, Colin Chapman (who founded Lotus) came out with a revolutionary design in the Lotus 25 (a Formula One car). He used aluminum sheet, riveted into .....boxes- the strength of the sheet(in 2 dimensions), and the strength of the shape, in the 3rd dimension, formed a structure much lighter and much stronger than the old tube frame - a "monocoque chassis." Stressed skin and monocoque construction existed in aircraft design going back into the 1930s. It rapidly became 'the way to do it." When carbon fiber came along, it replaced aluminum.

So, well done. Time to think outside the box about towers- what's going on structurally in a top-loaded structure with a defined height, and base. Hmmmm....
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby blue cobra » June 26th, 2010, 6:03 pm

Balsa Man, will we be seeing any pictures of your kids' bridge from this last season? I'm still dying to see it :D
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby nejanimb » June 26th, 2010, 8:39 pm

Seconded. I don't know if I mentioned, but as you'll see, we put up a full gallery, both of the '09 and '10 seasons. Hopefully more people will do the same! I'd still love to see Troy's bridge especially (Boomtech?), as well as a closer shot of the 2nd place bridge from Kansas (though I at least got to see that one in person). Also, I figured I'd volunteer it - did anyone have questions or thoughts on the gallery we posted?
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby paleonaps » June 30th, 2010, 1:07 pm

Just saw the first place national bridge for this year..... holy crap.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby lllazar » July 1st, 2010, 9:14 am

paleonaps95 wrote:Just saw the first place national bridge for this year..... holy crap.


Where did you see it?...
2011 Season Events~

Fossils (Regionals ~1st) (State ~6th)
Towers (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd)
Helicopter (Regionals -3rd gahhh) (State ~5th)
Wind Power (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd TIERED!)

Hooray for getting everything i wanted?

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby blue cobra » July 1st, 2010, 10:50 am

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby lllazar » July 1st, 2010, 1:10 pm

blue cobra wrote:


O i thought he meant the 1st place C bridge.
2011 Season Events~

Fossils (Regionals ~1st) (State ~6th)
Towers (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd)
Helicopter (Regionals -3rd gahhh) (State ~5th)
Wind Power (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd TIERED!)

Hooray for getting everything i wanted?

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby fmtiger124 » July 1st, 2010, 1:45 pm

While we're on the topic of that bridge, I just want to say how completely awesome it is. Reading this thread, everyone gets so complicated with everything and I get uber confused (not that I did this event....). It's so completely simple and against the grain
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby sciolyswizzle16 » July 1st, 2010, 3:24 pm

that bridge looks complicated yet at the same time simple, good job who ever thought of that design
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby quizbowl » July 2nd, 2010, 7:13 pm

sciolyswizzle16 wrote:that bridge looks complicated yet at the same time simple, good job who ever thought of that design

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby lllazar » July 20th, 2010, 10:05 am

Hey guys im going to my local hobby store soon, and they have Great Planes Pro CA adhesives...i was just wondering if "gap filler" is a bad because i just want a 10-15 second set CA based glue and then a 1-3 second set, but the 10-15 second set-time they have says gap filler....am i just being stupid?
2011 Season Events~

Fossils (Regionals ~1st) (State ~6th)
Towers (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd)
Helicopter (Regionals -3rd gahhh) (State ~5th)
Wind Power (Regionals ~1st) (State ~3rd TIERED!)

Hooray for getting everything i wanted?

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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Postby blue cobra » July 20th, 2010, 11:44 am

lllazar wrote:Hey guys im going to my local hobby store soon, and they have Great Planes Pro CA adhesives...i was just wondering if "gap filler" is a bad because i just want a 10-15 second set CA based glue and then a 1-3 second set, but the 10-15 second set-time they have says gap filler....am i just being stupid?

The kind I use says gap filler. It doesn't seem to have a negative effect, although I haven't tested it. With proper building techniques, my joints never break. I think gap filling actually just refers to the viscosity, not a chemical in the glue. Don't take it to mean that you can get away with having gaps between your members, but it should be fine.
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