Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

captbilly
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I suspect he was reffering to second tiered

Postby captbilly » February 3rd, 2009, 8:42 pm

I don't think that this kid actually meant that he was disqualified, I think he meant second tiered. Have you really had to actually DQ 14 teams at Nationals? I would think that by the time someone made it to Nationals they wouldn't do something so blatant as to be actually DQed. I also suspect that if this same kid actually got DQed twice at Nationals that he would either have been banned by SO from competition or thrown off his team. I don't think that teams that regularly go to Nationals put up with competitors who get DQed.

What kind of things actually get someone DQed?

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Dark Sabre » February 3rd, 2009, 9:14 pm

Matthew's arbitration record would not have been only from DQs. Teams also arbitrate against penalties they receive and in favor of penalties they thing other teams should have received. So most, if not all, of the 14 arbitrations were probably unrelated to DQs.

From NSO:
Teams should be Disqualified or “DQ” only for misbehavior (to include excessive use of improper or vulgar language) or cheating. Put DQ as raw score and award N+2 points on the score sheet. Also, note on the score sheet the reason why teams were disqualified. Event Supervisors may remove from competition any student(s) whose personal or ethical behavior does not adhere to the Science Olympiad Code of Ethics. This action will disqualify the affected student(s) from participation and scoring in that event only. If any team is DQed or Ranked Below Others, inform the student (and remind the student to inform their coach) as soon as a problem occurs and notify the head coach immediately if it determined after students have left and be sure to list the detailed reason on the score sheet.
The other cardinal sin of Scioly is probably safety hazards, which you are not DQ'ed for:
Any device, which, in the judgment of the Event Supervisor, is a safety hazard to competitors, judges, or spectators, will not be allowed to compete and will be listed as a P (Participation) for the raw score on the score sheet and will be awarded N points.

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby fleet130 » February 3rd, 2009, 11:49 pm

Back in the early days of Science Olympiad, DQ's were handed out for any infraction for which the rules did not give a specific penalty. Since the rules defined almost no penalties, any infraction (even minor) could result in a DQ.

At some point a decision was made that a DQ would be given only for "an intentional attempt to gain unfair advantage" (cheating) or for misbehavior(to include improper language). Attempts were made to eliminate DQs for "frivolous" reasons having no effect on the overall outcome of the event. More penalties were defined in the rules and thus the second tier was born. Basically, you would be "second-tiered" for any infraction.

Some felt it wasn't fair to receive the same penalty for "minor" as for "major" infractions, so additional tiers based on the severity of the infraction were added. That second tier grew to as many as 8 scoring tiers in a single event.

The proliferation of tiers made scoring difficult for many regional and state event supervisors and since then the number of tiers have been reduced.

These ideas have been slow to trickle down to state and regional tournaments, and in some cases, may still not be completely understood/adopted.
Information expressed here is solely the opinion of the author. Any similarity to that of the management or any official instrument is purely coincidental! Doing Science Olympiad since 1987!

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Jo_squirrel » February 17th, 2009, 7:42 am

There was a bridge that was DQed at my Regionals, and I wasn't there when they did it so I'm really curious as to WHY they got DQed.
I'm assuming that the kid that was allowed to balance the bucket with a finger or two was really supporting it and not just stopping it from swaying, so they got DQed?
I'd have been mad if my partner had done something like that and they DQed us >.<

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby gneissisnice » February 20th, 2009, 3:19 pm

hehe, well, a few years ago, I did Food science as a trial event at nationals. The entire event was a disaster. First, my partner and I couldnt find the room, so we arrived a little late. Then we went to the first station, which went ok. The second station, however, didnt go as well. We were asked to use benedicts solution with a banana to determine relative sugar content. Which would have been easy except for 2 things: It's kinda hard to stuff a banana in a test tube, and nothing was given for us to heat it in, since there has to be heat for the reaction to work. We managed to get past that though.
Then came the bad part. We were asked to take crumbled up cereal, add water, and use a magnetic plate and a magnet to find iron. I asked the man who ran the event how much water to add, because it wasnt mentioned. He said it in a rude and condescending way, so I lost my temper and said "Well, it doesnt say that. This event sucks".
Well, when we got the results, we found that we had scored 61. Out of 60 teams.
I feel like we would have done well, too, since the writer was too lazy to write his own event. I found the same exact questions online a few days before, and thus knew all the answers.
Im not totally sure why we DQed, but it probably has to do with insulting the event.
Funnily enough, my partner and I got 4th the year after. Go figure.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby smartkid222 » February 20th, 2009, 4:14 pm

that sucks that you got DQ'ed i'm sorry.
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Re: Anyone been DQed and felt it was wrong

Postby croman74 » February 20th, 2009, 8:16 pm

My Partners Cell phone went off in the middle of oceanography during States last year. I think we might have been DQed if the Event supervisor hadn't noticed that I would have thrown him out the window if he got us DQed.

The previous year I was almost 2nd tiered in Wheeled Vehicle in Div. B States because someone misinterpreted the rules about whether the foremost point of the vehicle had to be non moving or the foremost nonmoving point of the vehicle had to be marked. When my coach protested, my wheeled vehicle and about 12 others were un second tiered. However, during the time they gave me a chance to fix the problem, but I was so nervous that I almost destroyed the Wheeled Vehicle in the process.
Wow, an appeal to the judges that actually worked. That's rare. For scrambler last year my coach appealed to the judges, but it didn't work and we got second tiered. :(
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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Phenylethylamine » March 2nd, 2009, 8:56 am

hehe, well, a few years ago, I did Food science as a trial event at nationals. The entire event was a disaster. First, my partner and I couldnt find the room, so we arrived a little late. Then we went to the first station, which went ok. The second station, however, didnt go as well. We were asked to use benedicts solution with a banana to determine relative sugar content. Which would have been easy except for 2 things: It's kinda hard to stuff a banana in a test tube, and nothing was given for us to heat it in, since there has to be heat for the reaction to work. We managed to get past that though.
Then came the bad part. We were asked to take crumbled up cereal, add water, and use a magnetic plate and a magnet to find iron. I asked the man who ran the event how much water to add, because it wasnt mentioned. He said it in a rude and condescending way, so I lost my temper and said "Well, it doesnt say that. This event sucks".
Well, when we got the results, we found that we had scored 61. Out of 60 teams.
I feel like we would have done well, too, since the writer was too lazy to write his own event. I found the same exact questions online a few days before, and thus knew all the answers.
Im not totally sure why we DQed, but it probably has to do with insulting the event.
Funnily enough, my partner and I got 4th the year after. Go figure.
The iron determination is always terrible! We had to do that at Nats last year, and they gave us these little tiny 10g containers to carry 50g of cereal from the community station to our station. Then we had to break up the cereal using a 10g mortar and pestle... and so the whole thing took a ridiculous amount of time. In the end, we didn't even get any result, so we just made up a number. When we looked in the event booklet this year, we found that the actual answer was too small have been measured using the balances they gave us... but I did manage to keep my temper, even though I felt like throwing the cereal at the head of the (very nice) event supervisor xD

(BTW, I go to Gelinas and I'm Nev's Food Sci partner from last year. You know me.)
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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby gneissisnice » March 2nd, 2009, 3:32 pm

Hi Phenyl. Yeah, she definitely knows my story, cause Ive told it to her like 7 times.
They never did learn to not give iron determination.
And your supervisor was probably nicer than mine.
2009 events:
Fossils: 1st @ reg. 3rd @ states (stupid dinosaurs...) 5th @ nats.
Dynamic: 1st @ reg. 19thish @ states, 18th @ nats
Herpetology (NOT the study of herpes): NA
Enviro Chem: 39th @ states =(
Cell Bio: 9th @ reg. 18th @ nats
Remote: 6th @ states 3rd @ Nats
Ecology: 5th @ Nats

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Re: Anyone been DQed at Nationals and felt it was wrong

Postby Phenylethylamine » March 2nd, 2009, 4:43 pm

Probably, but even so, without Nev I would have gotten completely fed up and possibly started yelling.
You've heard me complain about this at least as many times as you've told me your story...
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