Thermodynamics B/C

Locked
LittyWap
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: March 22nd, 2017, 1:44 pm
Division: C
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by LittyWap »

Alex-RCHS wrote:For those using aerogel: are you worried at all about long-term viability? Since it is a powerful dessicant, I feel that it shouldn't be exposed to the humid air in the device. What do you all think?
I feel as though very few are using aerogels. A friend of mine did a research paper on the matter, and ran into very many financial walls. Silica gels are too expensive to be practical for a student-student competition. Exposing the silica gel would consistently throw off your data as it absorbs more water. The gel would absorb more and more water (to a limit), increasing the energy transferred from the water to the gel.


On a side note:

For those who have data right now, what kind of curves are you using to predict your temperature? I have tried all variants of sinusoidal curves, which have a correlation of >0.9999, while more common relationships such as linear or quadratic are consistently < 0.999. Small difference? Not quite. Linear relationships are often < 0.1 C off of the actual value. Has anyone solved this, or has anyone had the same problems as myself? I have about 40 hours of data, with no hope of this annoyance going away. I've graphed and found the relationships between the parametric variables, with little success. What relationships do you all use, and if you have a sinusoidal curve, how did you overcome its inherent challenges? How were you able to derive the parametric variables from the given information? (Initial Temp, Room Temp, etc)

Like Hovercraft last year, I have to use some pretty complex math to be as accurate as possible. Last year I learned basic trigonometry, now I've learned integral Calculus. SciOly is a gift and a curse: your social life crashes, but hey, you're 3 years ahead in math.
Build score of 49.88/50 at Nationals!? Slacker! :evil:

Shady Side Academy Division C

Hovercraft, Thermodynamics, Chemistry Lab, Mat Sci

Big P
User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4338
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by Unome »

LittyWap wrote:For those who have data right now, what kind of curves are you using to predict your temperature? I have tried all variants of sinusoidal curves, which have a correlation of >0.9999, while more common relationships such as linear or quadratic are consistently < 0.999. Small difference? Not quite. Linear relationships are often < 0.1 C off of the actual value. Has anyone solved this, or has anyone had the same problems as myself? I have about 40 hours of data, with no hope of this annoyance going away. I've graphed and found the relationships between the parametric variables, with little success. What relationships do you all use, and if you have a sinusoidal curve, how did you overcome its inherent challenges? How were you able to derive the parametric variables from the given information? (Initial Temp, Room Temp, etc)

Like Hovercraft last year, I have to use some pretty complex math to be as accurate as possible. Last year I learned basic trigonometry, now I've learned integral Calculus. SciOly is a gift and a curse: your social life crashes, but hey, you're 3 years ahead in math.
I suspect a polynomial relationship of some sort will be the most accurate, seeing as most or all of the thermodynamic equations are non-transcendental. Most likely, you would need to do a multivariable regression (there are probably programs that can do that somewhere on the internet, though I don't know what they are).
Userpage

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.
User avatar
kendreaditya
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: March 31st, 2016, 3:28 pm
Division: C
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by kendreaditya »

WhatScience how long have you been in Scioly? You seem experienced, but you have made your account this year.

Who is going to invitationals?
arv101
Member
Member
Posts: 108
Joined: September 29th, 2016, 5:12 pm
Division: B
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by arv101 »

Wait how random is your data, if you graph the points, is it at all linear or quadratic or is it more random and requires higer level math?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?
"You may have graduated, but I have many degrees"
User avatar
Pizzacats
Member
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: November 14th, 2017, 12:17 pm
Division: B
State: PA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by Pizzacats »

Hello thermodynamics friends! I like pizza and i like cats! :D
My signature is my signature
arv101
Member
Member
Posts: 108
Joined: September 29th, 2016, 5:12 pm
Division: B
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by arv101 »

What is the best way to prepare for the predictions? My partner and I have thought a great deal about this but from all of the ideas we brainstormed, it requires hundreds of tests for accurate results. From someone who has already started testing different combinations with their devices, were you able to find a regression? How many tests did it take you? At what level did you prepare for (eg nationals has many more possible increments that regionals)? How RANDOM is the graph?

I just want to get a feel for how I should go about doing this. Thanks a lot!
Also, how are you guys heating up the water to very specific degrees?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?
"You may have graduated, but I have many degrees"
arv101
Member
Member
Posts: 108
Joined: September 29th, 2016, 5:12 pm
Division: B
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by arv101 »

WhatScience, can you confirm that I am in the competition? The mock test you had planned.
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?
"You may have graduated, but I have many degrees"
User avatar
WhatScience?
Member
Member
Posts: 395
Joined: July 16th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by WhatScience? »

arv101 wrote:WhatScience, can you confirm that I am in the competition? The mock test you had planned.
Yes you are in the competition...I came home late last night from a team scioly meeting...will have everything sent out by noon. sorry
User avatar
JoeyC
Member
Member
Posts: 307
Joined: November 7th, 2017, 1:43 pm
Division: Grad
State: TX
Has thanked: 503 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by JoeyC »

Does anyone know if VIPs (Vacuum insulated plates) are any good? they cost a lot, but supposedly they match aerogel performance and
don't degrade due to water absorption (which allows for more consistent predictions). I would not use those for the main body (PURs w/ R- value of 10 instead), but I want to know if a vacuum plate would be worth it ( cause they're ~$40 a small panel),Thanks!
User avatar
WhatScience?
Member
Member
Posts: 395
Joined: July 16th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by WhatScience? »

JoeyC wrote:Does anyone know if VIPs (Vacuum insulated plates) are any good? they cost a lot, but supposedly they match aerogel performance and
don't degrade due to water absorption (which allows for more consistent predictions). I would not use those for the main body (PURs w/ R- value of 10 instead), but I want to know if a vacuum plate would be worth it ( cause they're ~$40 a small panel),Thanks!
I don't know what you are exactly referring to...could you post a link
Locked

Return to “2018 Lab Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests