Environmental Chem

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Phenylethylamine
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Phenylethylamine » March 21st, 2009, 5:52 pm

What, about how the topics aren't well-defined? That's not an issue of what's allowed or not, it's just that the rules are a little vague for many of the events. It's something inherent to SciO that basically you just have to live with. Usually, the longer the event is around, the more specific the rules get.
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by dickyjones » March 21st, 2009, 6:08 pm

Nah, the rules for food science were always vague and didn't really get better over time; they only stated that the event 'may' include some stations and didn't give any restrictions.

This event, on the other hand, gives too many restrictions with the wording 'this event will consist of a series of experiments and questions...on these Environmental Chemistry topics'. And the topics and stations listed afterward are not very substantial (at least for div. C). I guess they can pretty much include any subset of soil chemistry under the title of "soil analysis" though (at least I hope most competitions will). Really, I'd prepare for anything. If you're in division B, some tournaments might get lazy and give you a division C test anyways so it couldn't hurt to know more difficult topics.
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Phenylethylamine » March 21st, 2009, 6:17 pm

Well, I didn't mean that every event got more specific over time, but some do.

Still, even if it specifically states that the event "will" consist of those topics, that doesn't mean that event sups are going to treat that (very vague) list much more seriously than the suggested topics lists in other events. Even if they did follow it religiously, they'd still have a very wide range of topics.
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by dickyjones » March 21st, 2009, 7:13 pm

Yeah, I agree (and hope) that most event supervisors won't follow the rules religiously. But following the rules, there definitely isn't much of a range of topics (especially since the division B and C rules are identical except for having to MATCH mass specs in division C) to study for at least. I mean knowing the forms of fertilizers and being able to tell which nutrients are trace/necessary definitely isn't much work. The labs are really the only things that can have much variety when the rules are followed. Quite honestly, right now I'm hoping that my test for state is bad (as in not following the rules at all) because I've spent the majority of my time researching topics of soil chemistry that go far more in depth than the rules. It seems like the third chem events (food sci/this) are meant to be purely chem versions of technical problem solving (testing people on doing a proper lab on the fly) than actually about the topics they claim to represent.

Basically, I just like to rant about this event because I dislike going into any events without any idea of whether I'm going to medal or not.
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Mr. Cool » March 21st, 2009, 7:47 pm

It seems that a lot of the experiments that you could do during the comp. can take too much time. Like testing for N-P-K content, where you have to shake it up in a beaker for 2-5 minutes.
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by gneissisnice » March 22nd, 2009, 6:00 am

Ugh, I just did terribly at this event at states. 39th place =(. The test was much longer than we thought, so we didnt split it, and we had to test for a chloride ion, which would have been easy, except we had to put filter paper in a funnel and put soil in there, and then add water to get a solution we could test. But the water didnt drip down the funnel, it just got absorbed in the paper. We wasted a few minutes doing it, and we ended up not getting to put anything for an answer. We also had to leave a few other stuff blank =(.
I forgot that NY states makes every chem event ridiculously full of chemistry and removes the other factors (i.e. food or environment).
And phenyl, please dont hurt me for my bad score :D
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Phenylethylamine » March 22nd, 2009, 8:19 am

gneissisnice wrote:Ugh, I just did terribly at this event at states. 39th place =(. The test was much longer than we thought, so we didnt split it, and we had to test for a chloride ion, which would have been easy, except we had to put filter paper in a funnel and put soil in there, and then add water to get a solution we could test. But the water didnt drip down the funnel, it just got absorbed in the paper. We wasted a few minutes doing it, and we ended up not getting to put anything for an answer. We also had to leave a few other stuff blank =(.
I forgot that NY states makes every chem event ridiculously full of chemistry and removes the other factors (i.e. food or environment).
And phenyl, please dont hurt me for my bad score :D
lol I'm not going to hurt you, but you are going to go over EVERY QUESTION OF THAT EVENT (that you remember) with me, especially if it's something that could also relate to B Division :D
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Phenylethylamine » March 22nd, 2009, 10:58 am

Now that I've started putting a little more effort into studying for this event, I really see what dickyjones was saying about what a narrow range of topics are included. Four main areas specified, one of which is simply the memorization of three chemical formulas... Yeah, it's not much.

BTW, what is the chemical formula for ammonium nitrate?
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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Flavorflav » March 22nd, 2009, 11:11 am

NH4NO3. They could theoretically ask you the specific nutritional requirements for maximum yield of any plant in the world, though, and stay within spec.
dickyjones wrote:Nah, the rules for food science were always vague and didn't really get better over time; they only stated that the event 'may' include some stations and didn't give any restrictions.
But wasn't food science only in for two or three years? That's not really enough time to get specific. You should see the old "Earth Science Process Lab" rules, and compare them to Dynamic Planet.

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Re: Environmental Chem

Post by Phenylethylamine » March 22nd, 2009, 11:24 am

Flavorflav wrote:NH4NO3. They could theoretically ask you the specific nutritional requirements for maximum yield of any plant in the world, though, and stay within spec.
Actually, the rules says "[...]make recommendations to obtain maximum yield for different types of plants in different areas of the garden." (Boldface mine.) So technically speaking, it must be a plant that can be grown in some form of garden... which does narrow it down a little bit. Also, it shouldn't be too hard to make an educated guess of the nutritional requirements for any given plant if you know the requirements for some related plant, should it?
Flavorflav wrote:
dickyjones wrote:Nah, the rules for food science were always vague and didn't really get better over time; they only stated that the event 'may' include some stations and didn't give any restrictions.
But wasn't food science only in for two or three years? That's not really enough time to get specific.
Food Sci was only around for two years, I'm pretty sure, but its rules were still exceptionally vague, even for a new event. It basically gave sample questions instead of actual topics.
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