Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by Unome »

drcubbin wrote:
Skink wrote:Illinois: when the Regional tournaments all coincide, they prepare an emergency test bank for proctors to use while trying to slot in competent ESes wherever possible. It's a nice compromise.

Another consideration: not releasing tests protects ESes from challenges (especially if the motivation for the challenge is to influence State bid earning). This is especially critical for more subjectively-scored events like Experimental.
I completely understand not wanting to have to deal with students balking about either the minutiae or the subjectivity of resulting grades (especially from events like ExpD), but how lazy can an event supervisor be to just use an exam they pull off the internet "en toto"? My students have told me about this at many of the Invitationals and Regionals we have attended. In fact at one of the invitationals two years ago, one of our teams said the other team (one of our own teams!) cheated because they had the entire test key in their binder. I explained that while it may not have been fair for all, it just showed that team was "prepared" not cheating. I also understand having a "bank" of ready-to-go tests in case someone drops the ball when time comes to submit the test, but ESs are (from my experience) given ample time to put any test together. I have written four this season. Yes, it is time-consuming and yes, I have given up many weekends working instead of taking my family to the movies or hiking, but there is a great satisfaction when students leave the room and say they really "enjoyed" taking your test. (Show me a "regular" student say that after taking a test you make at school!) :D
Most invitationals with which I have experience will have all event supervisors ready at least a few weeks ahead of time, but regional and state tournaments are typically still filling spots the week of the tournament (at least, they are in Georgia). I know this from personal experience, having been picked up for Dynamic Planet at a Div B regional last year the Monday before the tournament, and likewise less than two weeks before the tournament for Solar System at Div B State this year. I don't know enough about the invitationals in your area to comment in detail, but I would agree that ESes at invitationals should be better than that.
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by drcubbin »

Unome wrote:
drcubbin wrote:
Skink wrote:Illinois: when the Regional tournaments all coincide, they prepare an emergency test bank for proctors to use while trying to slot in competent ESes wherever possible. It's a nice compromise.

Another consideration: not releasing tests protects ESes from challenges (especially if the motivation for the challenge is to influence State bid earning). This is especially critical for more subjectively-scored events like Experimental.
I completely understand not wanting to have to deal with students balking about either the minutiae or the subjectivity of resulting grades (especially from events like ExpD), but how lazy can an event supervisor be to just use an exam they pull off the internet "en toto"? My students have told me about this at many of the Invitationals and Regionals we have attended. In fact at one of the invitationals two years ago, one of our teams said the other team (one of our own teams!) cheated because they had the entire test key in their binder. I explained that while it may not have been fair for all, it just showed that team was "prepared" not cheating. I also understand having a "bank" of ready-to-go tests in case someone drops the ball when time comes to submit the test, but ESs are (from my experience) given ample time to put any test together. I have written four this season. Yes, it is time-consuming and yes, I have given up many weekends working instead of taking my family to the movies or hiking, but there is a great satisfaction when students leave the room and say they really "enjoyed" taking your test. (Show me a "regular" student say that after taking a test you make at school!) :D
Most invitationals with which I have experience will have all event supervisors ready at least a few weeks ahead of time, but regional and state tournaments are typically still filling spots the week of the tournament (at least, they are in Georgia). I know this from personal experience, having been picked up for Dynamic Planet at a Div B regional last year the Monday before the tournament, and likewise less than two weeks before the tournament for Solar System at Div B State this year. I don't know enough about the invitationals in your area to comment in detail, but I would agree that ESes at invitationals should be better than that.
Holy "late-notification" Batman!! That is just plain ridiculous. Could it be because those who were supposed to be doing it put it off until they couldn't do it? Not good :x

From my experience, New York gives us ample time to prepare for Invy, Regional and State event test writing. :)
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by bernard »

Washington state does not return tests so that if any issues arise, all papers are available for reevaluation. Returning tests can also make scoring more complicated if competitors contest grading, adding delays (which may affect timeliness of awards or qualifications for higher level tournaments). Errors occur and others may disagree with scoring criteria, but hopefully a consistent approach allows fairer grading.
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by Alex-RCHS »

Unome wrote:
drcubbin wrote:
Skink wrote:Illinois: when the Regional tournaments all coincide, they prepare an emergency test bank for proctors to use while trying to slot in competent ESes wherever possible. It's a nice compromise.

Another consideration: not releasing tests protects ESes from challenges (especially if the motivation for the challenge is to influence State bid earning). This is especially critical for more subjectively-scored events like Experimental.
I completely understand not wanting to have to deal with students balking about either the minutiae or the subjectivity of resulting grades (especially from events like ExpD), but how lazy can an event supervisor be to just use an exam they pull off the internet "en toto"? My students have told me about this at many of the Invitationals and Regionals we have attended. In fact at one of the invitationals two years ago, one of our teams said the other team (one of our own teams!) cheated because they had the entire test key in their binder. I explained that while it may not have been fair for all, it just showed that team was "prepared" not cheating. I also understand having a "bank" of ready-to-go tests in case someone drops the ball when time comes to submit the test, but ESs are (from my experience) given ample time to put any test together. I have written four this season. Yes, it is time-consuming and yes, I have given up many weekends working instead of taking my family to the movies or hiking, but there is a great satisfaction when students leave the room and say they really "enjoyed" taking your test. (Show me a "regular" student say that after taking a test you make at school!) :D
Most invitationals with which I have experience will have all event supervisors ready at least a few weeks ahead of time, but regional and state tournaments are typically still filling spots the week of the tournament (at least, they are in Georgia). I know this from personal experience, having been picked up for Dynamic Planet at a Div B regional last year the Monday before the tournament, and likewise less than two weeks before the tournament for Solar System at Div B State this year. I don't know enough about the invitationals in your area to comment in detail, but I would agree that ESes at invitationals should be better than that.
In NC, event supervisors often supervised the same event last year, and even if not most of the events are filled over a month before states.
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by drcubbin »

Alex-RCHS wrote:
Unome wrote:
drcubbin wrote: I completely understand not wanting to have to deal with students balking about either the minutiae or the subjectivity of resulting grades (especially from events like ExpD), but how lazy can an event supervisor be to just use an exam they pull off the internet "en toto"? My students have told me about this at many of the Invitationals and Regionals we have attended. In fact at one of the invitationals two years ago, one of our teams said the other team (one of our own teams!) cheated because they had the entire test key in their binder. I explained that while it may not have been fair for all, it just showed that team was "prepared" not cheating. I also understand having a "bank" of ready-to-go tests in case someone drops the ball when time comes to submit the test, but ESs are (from my experience) given ample time to put any test together. I have written four this season. Yes, it is time-consuming and yes, I have given up many weekends working instead of taking my family to the movies or hiking, but there is a great satisfaction when students leave the room and say they really "enjoyed" taking your test. (Show me a "regular" student say that after taking a test you make at school!) :D
Most invitationals with which I have experience will have all event supervisors ready at least a few weeks ahead of time, but regional and state tournaments are typically still filling spots the week of the tournament (at least, they are in Georgia). I know this from personal experience, having been picked up for Dynamic Planet at a Div B regional last year the Monday before the tournament, and likewise less than two weeks before the tournament for Solar System at Div B State this year. I don't know enough about the invitationals in your area to comment in detail, but I would agree that ESes at invitationals should be better than that.
In NC, event supervisors often supervised the same event last year, and even if not most of the events are filled over a month before states.
NC is on the ball. We met one of their teams at Cornell (very nice folks) and I was watching a couple of the review YouTube videos today from a NC teacher (Thermodynamics and Optics).
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by Alex-RCHS »

drcubbin wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:
Unome wrote: Most invitationals with which I have experience will have all event supervisors ready at least a few weeks ahead of time, but regional and state tournaments are typically still filling spots the week of the tournament (at least, they are in Georgia). I know this from personal experience, having been picked up for Dynamic Planet at a Div B regional last year the Monday before the tournament, and likewise less than two weeks before the tournament for Solar System at Div B State this year. I don't know enough about the invitationals in your area to comment in detail, but I would agree that ESes at invitationals should be better than that.
In NC, event supervisors often supervised the same event last year, and even if not most of the events are filled over a month before states.
NC is on the ball. We met one of their teams at Cornell (very nice folks) and I was watching a couple of the review YouTube videos today from a NC teacher (Thermodynamics and Optics).
Ah, that must have been Piedmont. I consider them the Troy of NC. And yes those NC tutorials are great!

To avoid pulling this off topic, I can say that in NC for the past two years we’ve gotten regional and state raw scores back, but we can’t see other teams raw scores and we don’t get tests themselves back.
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by windu34 »

Unome, East, and Bernard all hit on the completely valid reasons why the vast majority of regionals and states do not release tests. That said, individual supervisors in events are never told not to release testing materials afterwards and if they felt so inclined, they could post test materials to the test exchange here (this never actually happens, but is certainly something that could happen if someone felt to inclined. I know I for one fully intend to release any tests I write for regionals/states to the test exchange for others to utilize
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by maxxxxx »

windu34 wrote:Unome, East, and Bernard all hit on the completely valid reasons why the vast majority of regionals and states do not release tests. That said, individual supervisors in events are never told not to release testing materials afterwards and if they felt so inclined, they could post test materials to the test exchange here (this never actually happens, but is certainly something that could happen if someone felt to inclined. I know I for one fully intend to release any tests I write for regionals/states to the test exchange for others to utilize
Some states don't allow supervisors to share tests unfortunately. I don't know how widespread it is but I know Southern California prohibits it (my sister wrote a test a few years ago and couldn't share it with me), and I've heard New Jersey also has restrictions. I believe the reason for New Jersey is that the tests may need to be used in States or Regions that couldn't get test writers, and as bad as reusing tests is, I think I'd rather have an event reuse a test that we are 100% isn't public than to not run the event.

For States that are allowed to share tests like PA, I hope more people upload theirs especially as there is a big influx of alumni test writers this year.
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by Unome »

Restarting this because of something new I saw,

At our state tournament, we received tests mailed back to us, presumably after the appeals window ended and scores were considered final. Thoughts?
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Re: Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

Post by kate! »

Unome wrote:Restarting this because of something new I saw,

At our state tournament, we received tests mailed back to us, presumably after the appeals window ended and scores were considered final. Thoughts?
That's interesting. Maybe your state has some policy not letting proctors reuse old tests? I guess it's different for every state, New York isn't allowed to give tests back nor scores. Have you ever seen a test or question reused?
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