Events 2018-2019

[nicholasmaurer]

@Chalker
As someone who runs a tournament, I would really like it if Protein Modeling, Experimental Design, WIDI, and Forensics were all in the morning. Is this something you consider when making up the schedule? Can I ask that 2 of those be in the same block or one of them be self-scheduled? Thanks.

I don't think this request is possible. Typically, except for 1-2 events (e.g. Disease Detectives) which run only during the impound period, all events are run during all six of the main time slots. Therefore, there are not "morning" vs. "afternoon" events. For any given team, it is certainly possible that all of these events would be in the morning. But that would likely mean another team has all four events in the afternoon.

I also wouldn't expect any of those events to be self-schedule; none have been in the past.

As a Tournament Director, however, you are certainly empowered to set your own tournament's schedule to make your requests happen. But I would not expect the National Tournament schedule to reflect any of these requests.

I apologize; I did use some shorthand that I thought was clear. My cap is 36 teams and so I run each event in 3 blocks with 12 teams each. There aren't many very large invites around here and most of the invites here run a similar schedule. Then I run 3 blocks in the morning and 3 blocks in the afternoon, giving me that total of 6 blocks.

So I would like all of the worst grading events to fit into 3 blocks, that I can schedule into the morning. If there are 4 events that I want in 3 blocks, then on the national schedule, I either need 2 of them to be in the same block or one of them to be self-scheduled.

ExpDes was self-scheduled a couple of years ago; though I wouldn't expect it to be again so soon.

Even if the official National Tournament schedule does not allow for this arrangement, you should theoretically be able to set a modified schedule that places these events in the morning while avoiding major conflicts (e.g. Proteins and Designer Genes). If you want to self-schedule one or more of these events, that is your prerogative as a tournament director.

[meierfra]

Even if the official National Tournament schedule does not allow for this arrangement, you should theoretically be able to set a modified schedule that places these events in the morning while avoiding major conflicts (e.g. Proteins and Designer Genes). If you want to self-schedule one or more of these events, that is your prerogative as a tournament director.

I realize that. But if I self-schedule it in the morning in blocks where it usually doesn't appear, there will always be some schools with conflicts, especially the smaller schools. As I was telling Unome, teams around here expect an invite to follow the national schedule. Teams have a lot of options in Michigan, there are 8 invites in 6 weeks, including one on the same date as mine, an hour and a half from here.

So while I know I can change the schedule from the national, I'd rather not, if I want teams to keep coming back.

That's probably what I would do, but I wouldn't like it. If I can put in a request ahead of time and then not have to deal with an unpleasant situation, I'll give that a try.

[Unome]

Even if the official National Tournament schedule does not allow for this arrangement, you should theoretically be able to set a modified schedule that places these events in the morning while avoiding major conflicts (e.g. Proteins and Designer Genes). If you want to self-schedule one or more of these events, that is your prerogative as a tournament director.

I realize that. But if I self-schedule it in the morning in blocks where it usually doesn't appear, there will always be some schools with conflicts, especially the smaller schools. As I was telling Unome, teams around here expect an invite to follow the national schedule. Teams have a lot of options in Michigan, there are 8 invites in 6 weeks, including one on the same date as mine, an hour and a half from here.

So while I know I can change the schedule from the national, I'd rather not, if I want teams to keep coming back.

That's probably what I would do, but I wouldn't like it. If I can put in a request ahead of time and then not have to deal with an unpleasant situation, I'll give that a try.

What are the typical timings for your tournament's schedule? I've heard that awards in Michigan tend to be relatively late; how much I'm is there between the last session and awards start time that e.g. Forensics would be a major concern?

[meierfra]

Even if the official National Tournament schedule does not allow for this arrangement, you should theoretically be able to set a modified schedule that places these events in the morning while avoiding major conflicts (e.g. Proteins and Designer Genes). If you want to self-schedule one or more of these events, that is your prerogative as a tournament director.

I realize that. But if I self-schedule it in the morning in blocks where it usually doesn't appear, there will always be some schools with conflicts, especially the smaller schools. As I was telling Unome, teams around here expect an invite to follow the national schedule. Teams have a lot of options in Michigan, there are 8 invites in 6 weeks, including one on the same date as mine, an hour and a half from here.

So while I know I can change the schedule from the national, I'd rather not, if I want teams to keep coming back.

That's probably what I would do, but I wouldn't like it. If I can put in a request ahead of time and then not have to deal with an unpleasant situation, I'll give that a try.

What are the typical timings for your tournament's schedule? I've heard that awards in Michigan tend to be relatively late; how much I'm is there between the last session and awards start time that e.g. Forensics would be a major concern?

We finish the last event at 2:55. I ask that scores and tests be in by 4:00 so we can start the awards by 4:15. I get the last scores in by 4:10 and we start the awards about 4:30.

When it's just one school running Forensics, it depends on how many helpers they can bring to help grade. So much of a good Forensics test is subjective. They also need some time to put all the stuff away, assuming it's a test that has real specimens to test. It really depends on how good the test is; and unless it's all objective, it's extremely difficult to do it in that amount of time.

[chalker]

But I didn't realize that it isn't NSO who makes up the national schedule.

NSO definitely provides input into it, but it's primarily driven by the upcoming national tournament director, based upon their experience and logistics at their local site.

[chalker]

@Chalker
As someone who runs a tournament, I would really like it if Protein Modeling, Experimental Design, WIDI, and Forensics were all in the morning. Is this something you consider when making up the schedule? Can I ask that 2 of those be in the same block or one of them be self-scheduled? Thanks.

I don't think this request is possible. Typically, except for 1-2 events (e.g. Disease Detectives) which run only during the impound period, all events are run during all six of the main time slots. Therefore, there are not "morning" vs. "afternoon" events. For any given team, it is certainly possible that all of these events would be in the morning. But that would likely mean another team has all four events in the afternoon.

I also wouldn't expect any of those events to be self-schedule; none have been in the past.

As a Tournament Director, however, you are certainly empowered to set your own tournament's schedule to make your requests happen. But I would not expect the National Tournament schedule to reflect any of these requests.

I apologize; I did use some shorthand that I thought was clear. My cap is 36 teams and so I run each event in 3 blocks with 12 teams each. There aren't many very large invites around here and most of the invites here run a similar schedule. Then I run 3 blocks in the morning and 3 blocks in the afternoon, giving me that total of 6 blocks.

So I would like all of the worst grading events to fit into 3 blocks, that I can schedule into the morning. If there are 4 events that I want in 3 blocks, then on the national schedule, I either need 2 of them to be in the same block or one of them to be self-scheduled.

ExpDes was self-scheduled a couple of years ago; though I wouldn't expect it to be again so soon.

I'm really confused by what you are asking. The nationals schedule uses all 6 time blocks for almost all events. We generally group them so that teams won't have events from the same committee in the same time block (e.g. for my physics committee, last year at nationals team 1 competed in thermo and optics in different time blocks, with hovercraft being a self scheduled event).

Looking at last year's national schedule, Forensics and ED were aligned so that Team 1 would compete in both of those at the same time. Is that what you mean by asking that 2 of the events you list be in the same 'block'?

[meierfra]

I don't think this request is possible. Typically, except for 1-2 events (e.g. Disease Detectives) which run only during the impound period, all events are run during all six of the main time slots. Therefore, there are not "morning" vs. "afternoon" events. For any given team, it is certainly possible that all of these events would be in the morning. But that would likely mean another team has all four events in the afternoon.

I also wouldn't expect any of those events to be self-schedule; none have been in the past.

As a Tournament Director, however, you are certainly empowered to set your own tournament's schedule to make your requests happen. But I would not expect the National Tournament schedule to reflect any of these requests.

I apologize; I did use some shorthand that I thought was clear. My cap is 36 teams and so I run each event in 3 blocks with 12 teams each. There aren't many very large invites around here and most of the invites here run a similar schedule. Then I run 3 blocks in the morning and 3 blocks in the afternoon, giving me that total of 6 blocks.

So I would like all of the worst grading events to fit into 3 blocks, that I can schedule into the morning. If there are 4 events that I want in 3 blocks, then on the national schedule, I either need 2 of them to be in the same block or one of them to be self-scheduled.

ExpDes was self-scheduled a couple of years ago; though I wouldn't expect it to be again so soon.

I'm really confused by what you are asking. The nationals schedule uses all 6 time blocks for almost all events. We generally group them so that teams won't have events from the same committee in the same time block (e.g. for my physics committee, last year at nationals team 1 competed in thermo and optics in different time blocks, with hovercraft being a self scheduled event).

Looking at last year's national schedule, Forensics and ED were aligned so that Team 1 would compete in both of those at the same time. Is that what you mean by asking that 2 of the events you list be in the same 'block'?

Yes.

Since my invite doesn't run 60 teams, but only 36, I can complete each event in 3 time blocks. It's convenient to run 3 overlapping event groupings in the morning and 3 in the afternoon.

If the 4 longest grading events are scheduled into 3 time blocks, for example Forensics and ED at the same time, then I can schedule teams 1-12 to do Forensics and ED at 9, Protein Modeling at 10 and WIDI at 11. Teams 13-24 would do PM at 9, WIDI at 10 and For and ED at 11. Teams 25-36 would do WIDI at 9, Forensics and ED at 10, and PM at 11. This way I can get all teams done with these events by noon.

If I would need a 4th time block, testing for that event wouldn't end until 3:00.

Let me know if I'm still not clear.

[chalker]

Yes.

Since my invite doesn't run 60 teams, but only 36, I can complete each event in 3 time blocks. It's convenient to run 3 overlapping event groupings in the morning and 3 in the afternoon.

If the 4 longest grading events are scheduled into 3 time blocks, for example Forensics and ED at the same time, then I can schedule teams 1-12 to do Forensics and ED at 9, Protein Modeling at 10 and WIDI at 11. Teams 13-24 would do PM at 9, WIDI at 10 and For and ED at 11. Teams 25-36 would do WIDI at 9, Forensics and ED at 10, and PM at 11. This way I can get all teams done with these events by noon.

If I would need a 4th time block, testing for that event wouldn't end until 3:00.

Let me know if I'm still not clear.

I think I understand now, but I also think you might not be fully thinking through all the 6 -> 3 time block consolidation options. Based upon what you've said, what I assume you've done is to essentially take the nationals schedule, delete the blocks with numbers 31-40, 41-50, 51-60 (and renumber the remaining blocks to 1-12, 13-24, 25-36)? Hence I think your initial request to have certain events be in the 'morning' is really saying that on the national schedule you want certain events to have teams 1-10 in the first time block, certain events to have them in the second time block, and certain ones in the third time block.

However, a key thing that I think might help you is that when we talk about 'following the national schedule', we generally don't talk about the order in which the teams compete in a certain event during the day, but rather the groupings of which events have the same teams competing at the same time (like I discussed above). An illustration of this is the fact that you could rearrange the order of any of the columns on the national schedule (e.g. maybe swap the 8:15-9:15 block with the 1:30-2:30 block) and still be 'following the national schedule.

When going to 2 sets of 3 time blocks (e.g. AM and PM), you should have even more flexibility in changes since you've eliminated half the events from the 'conflict' equation.
Hence, it really doesn't matter which teams come before other teams on the national schedule for what you are trying to accomplish - what matters is just that the 'conflicts' between events are maintained/avoided.

[MIScioly1]

Yes.

Since my invite doesn't run 60 teams, but only 36, I can complete each event in 3 time blocks. It's convenient to run 3 overlapping event groupings in the morning and 3 in the afternoon.

If the 4 longest grading events are scheduled into 3 time blocks, for example Forensics and ED at the same time, then I can schedule teams 1-12 to do Forensics and ED at 9, Protein Modeling at 10 and WIDI at 11. Teams 13-24 would do PM at 9, WIDI at 10 and For and ED at 11. Teams 25-36 would do WIDI at 9, Forensics and ED at 10, and PM at 11. This way I can get all teams done with these events by noon.

If I would need a 4th time block, testing for that event wouldn't end until 3:00.

Let me know if I'm still not clear.

I think I understand now, but I also think you might not be fully thinking through all the 6 -> 3 time block consolidation options. Based upon what you've said, what I assume you've done is to essentially take the nationals schedule, delete the blocks with numbers 31-40, 41-50, 51-60 (and renumber the remaining blocks to 1-12, 13-24, 25-36)? Hence I think your initial request to have certain events be in the 'morning' is really saying that on the national schedule you want certain events to have teams 1-10 in the first time block, certain events to have them in the second time block, and certain ones in the third time block.

However, a key thing that I think might help you is that when we talk about 'following the national schedule', we generally don't talk about the order in which the teams compete in a certain event during the day, but rather the groupings of which events have the same teams competing at the same time (like I discussed above). An illustration of this is the fact that you could rearrange the order of any of the columns on the national schedule (e.g. maybe swap the 8:15-9:15 block with the 1:30-2:30 block) and still be 'following the national schedule.

When going to 2 sets of 3 time blocks (e.g. AM and PM), you should have even more flexibility in changes since you've eliminated half the events from the 'conflict' equation.
Hence, it really doesn't matter which teams come before other teams on the national schedule for what you are trying to accomplish - what matters is just that the 'conflicts' between events are maintained/avoided.

I would think it's likely that of Protein, Exp Des, WIDI, and Forensics, two of them at least are in the same block. Worst case scenario, I'd recommend just making Exp Des a self-schedule event that could potentially run either 1-3rd hours or 1-4th hours. Not ideal, but something that every tournament would have to deal with.

At UMSO, Thermodynamics was actually the event that ended up slowing us down. We had it scheduled in the afternoon and it took us a solid 2+ hours to grade them all.

[meierfra]

Yes.

Since my invite doesn't run 60 teams, but only 36, I can complete each event in 3 time blocks. It's convenient to run 3 overlapping event groupings in the morning and 3 in the afternoon.

If the 4 longest grading events are scheduled into 3 time blocks, for example Forensics and ED at the same time, then I can schedule teams 1-12 to do Forensics and ED at 9, Protein Modeling at 10 and WIDI at 11. Teams 13-24 would do PM at 9, WIDI at 10 and For and ED at 11. Teams 25-36 would do WIDI at 9, Forensics and ED at 10, and PM at 11. This way I can get all teams done with these events by noon.

If I would need a 4th time block, testing for that event wouldn't end until 3:00.

Let me know if I'm still not clear.

I think I understand now, but I also think you might not be fully thinking through all the 6 -> 3 time block consolidation options. Based upon what you've said, what I assume you've done is to essentially take the nationals schedule, delete the blocks with numbers 31-40, 41-50, 51-60 (and renumber the remaining blocks to 1-12, 13-24, 25-36)? Hence I think your initial request to have certain events be in the 'morning' is really saying that on the national schedule you want certain events to have teams 1-10 in the first time block, certain events to have them in the second time block, and certain ones in the third time block.

However, a key thing that I think might help you is that when we talk about 'following the national schedule', we generally don't talk about the order in which the teams compete in a certain event during the day, but rather the groupings of which events have the same teams competing at the same time (like I discussed above). An illustration of this is the fact that you could rearrange the order of any of the columns on the national schedule (e.g. maybe swap the 8:15-9:15 block with the 1:30-2:30 block) and still be 'following the national schedule.

When going to 2 sets of 3 time blocks (e.g. AM and PM), you should have even more flexibility in changes since you've eliminated half the events from the 'conflict' equation.
Hence, it really doesn't matter which teams come before other teams on the national schedule for what you are trying to accomplish - what matters is just that the 'conflicts' between events are maintained/avoided.

Sorry, I now think I see where the confusion is. I wasn't trying to ask that these events be in the morning on the national schedule; I was only asking that they be scheduled in such a way that I can put them in the morning at my tournament. Going back and re-reading my posts, I wasn't clear.

I realize that I can swap the 8:15 block for the 1:30, or any of them. I realize that I don't need those events in the morning on the national schedule (and whether that phrase even makes sense.) I realize that the order I place events does not change the conflicts.

What I would like is that those 4 events (PM, ED, For, WIDI) be put into 3 blocks, or one be self-scheduled, so that I can schedule them into the morning at my tournament. The reason I want them in the morning at my tournament is the length of time it takes to grade, especially when it's being done by one school, or even one person. If those 4 events are on the national schedule in 3 blocks (anywhere), then I will be able to schedule them into the morning at my tournament.

Thanks for sticking with me.