## Mystery Architecture B

Cow481
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Posts: 158
Joined: January 2nd, 2018, 6:18 pm
Division: B
State: PA
Location: SSA

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.
What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?
My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one
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shri
Member
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Joined: November 10th, 2018, 7:38 pm

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?
My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one
That is a good thought! It would be easier to enforce a minimum width at a specified height, but then have no restriction beyond that. This does mean that you could build a tower on top of an arch, and that is OK.

ebudd2
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: January 7th, 2019, 10:30 am

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

HI, I had a question on the arches and tunnels. Is there any information on what exactly is expected of these structures? For example, would the arches be free-standing, or as part of a bridge for example? If the primary dimension of the tunnel is the longest portion of covered part, then what is its base? Anyone have any ideas?
Second this question. After coaching this event last year, I am a hard time visualizing the structures for this year:

What is the difference between an ELEVATED bridge and last year? Is it that this year they are going to always add the hight to the primary measurement vs. just the length?
For the Arch, is this really the same as a bridge but measuring to the apex of the bottom supports?
For the Tunnel, I can't imagine how this may be run. Seems to me the only limiting factor is the "covering" that will be used to enclose the tunnel. But understand how this will be differentiated if there is no load.

Yes I know part of the challenge of the event are the unknows - but without having some understanding of the types of builds, it is very hard to practice and know what to learn.
Thanks for any insight.

For tunnels - are support posts allowed? Is it basically a series of arches connected by support beams on top (like a tunnel camping tent pole structure)? Can you have a support post go down the middle of the tunnel?

heiber
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 21st, 2017, 11:11 am
State: -

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

HI, I had a question on the arches and tunnels. Is there any information on what exactly is expected of these structures? For example, would the arches be free-standing, or as part of a bridge for example? If the primary dimension of the tunnel is the longest portion of covered part, then what is its base? Anyone have any ideas?
Second this question. After coaching this event last year, I am a hard time visualizing the structures for this year:

What is the difference between an ELEVATED bridge and last year? Is it that this year they are going to always add the hight to the primary measurement vs. just the length?
For the Arch, is this really the same as a bridge but measuring to the apex of the bottom supports?
For the Tunnel, I can't imagine how this may be run. Seems to me the only limiting factor is the "covering" that will be used to enclose the tunnel. But understand how this will be differentiated if there is no load.

Yes I know part of the challenge of the event are the unknows - but without having some understanding of the types of builds, it is very hard to practice and know what to learn.
Thanks for any insight.

For tunnels - are support posts allowed? Is it basically a series of arches connected by support beams on top (like a tunnel camping tent pole structure)? Can you have a support post go down the middle of the tunnel?
As always, it depends on who is running the event and how they define the measurements but I DO NOT think this tests the intent of a tunnel. We recently practiced a tunnel and I have them structural materials (straws) and non-structural materials (grocery bags) with the primary measurement being: The longest enclosed tunnel that can pass a tennis ball through it. I impaled a tennis ball on a dowel so to use for testing.

Here is the actual write-up. I considered the table as part of the enclosure meaning the bag did not need to be on the bottom:

Create the longest tunnel that can fit a tennis ball all of the way through it. The tunnel cannot be secured to the table and must be fully enclosed. Materials:
• 2 grocery bags
• 40 straws

Primary measurement: Longest length of the tunnel that can fit the tennis ball
Secondary measurement: Diameter of the smallest section of the tunnel

lindsmaurer
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: May 16th, 2018, 11:57 am
Division: C
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Has anyone had any success in building arches with paper? It seems nearly impossible to make bent joints that are stable, and the FAQ's say that an arch needs to have a curved, symmetrical structure.

Also, for tunnels we've been rolling a ping pong ball or a golf ball through our tunnels to test the minimum dimension, if that helps anyone.
Solon MS/ DMAH
```2020:
Circuit Lab
Codebusters
Detector Building
Fossils
Gravity Vehicle

2019:
Circuit Lab
Mystery Architecture
Herp (invite season only)
Battery (invite season only)
```
```[b]Regionals/States/Nats:[/b]
Circuit: 1/1/_
Mystery: 1/2/_```

heiber
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 21st, 2017, 11:11 am
State: -

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Has anyone had any success in building arches with paper? It seems nearly impossible to make bent joints that are stable, and the FAQ's say that an arch needs to have a curved, symmetrical structure.

Also, for tunnels we've been rolling a ping pong ball or a golf ball through our tunnels to test the minimum dimension, if that helps anyone.
Where does it say in the rules that it must be curved and symmetrical? Considering the typical building materials (straws, popsicle sticks, etc.) that is not a practical application for the event. Especially if a load is involved.

As I am coaching the event my guidance is that the primary difference between Arcs and Bridges is that the primary dimension will most likely be height vs. length.

lindsmaurer
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: May 16th, 2018, 11:57 am
Division: C
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Has anyone had any success in building arches with paper? It seems nearly impossible to make bent joints that are stable, and the FAQ's say that an arch needs to have a curved, symmetrical structure.

Also, for tunnels we've been rolling a ping pong ball or a golf ball through our tunnels to test the minimum dimension, if that helps anyone.
Where does it say in the rules that it must be curved and symmetrical? Considering the typical building materials (straws, popsicle sticks, etc.) that is not a practical application for the event. Especially if a load is involved.

As I am coaching the event my guidance is that the primary difference between Arcs and Bridges is that the primary dimension will most likely be height vs. length.
It defines an arch here on the official FAQ page: https://www.soinc.org/mystery-architecture-0
Solon MS/ DMAH
```2020:
Circuit Lab
Codebusters
Detector Building
Fossils
Gravity Vehicle

2019:
Circuit Lab
Mystery Architecture
Herp (invite season only)
Battery (invite season only)
```
```[b]Regionals/States/Nats:[/b]
Circuit: 1/1/_
Mystery: 1/2/_```

heiber
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 21st, 2017, 11:11 am
State: -

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Has anyone had any success in building arches with paper? It seems nearly impossible to make bent joints that are stable, and the FAQ's say that an arch needs to have a curved, symmetrical structure.

Also, for tunnels we've been rolling a ping pong ball or a golf ball through our tunnels to test the minimum dimension, if that helps anyone.
Where does it say in the rules that it must be curved and symmetrical? Considering the typical building materials (straws, popsicle sticks, etc.) that is not a practical application for the event. Especially if a load is involved.

As I am coaching the event my guidance is that the primary difference between Arcs and Bridges is that the primary dimension will most likely be height vs. length.
It defines an arch here on the official FAQ page: https://www.soinc.org/mystery-architecture-0
Looks to me like that is a copy and paste of the empirical definition of an arch: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/arch

I think it would be very hard to judge subjective measurements like curved and symmetrical and instead will be based on the examples in the rules:
For an arch, the Primary Dimension could be measured:
i. with no load, from the base to the highest point of the arch
ii. with a load, from the base to the highest point of the load

The guidance I am giving my team is that an arch is different than a tower because it has to have two supports and span a distance vs. a square or rectangular tower base. But the variability of this event is what makes it interesting so we also emphasize reading, understanding the rules, and asking questions to clarify.

lindsmaurer
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: May 16th, 2018, 11:57 am
Division: C
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

Where does it say in the rules that it must be curved and symmetrical? Considering the typical building materials (straws, popsicle sticks, etc.) that is not a practical application for the event. Especially if a load is involved.

As I am coaching the event my guidance is that the primary difference between Arcs and Bridges is that the primary dimension will most likely be height vs. length.
It defines an arch here on the official FAQ page: https://www.soinc.org/mystery-architecture-0
Looks to me like that is a copy and paste of the empirical definition of an arch: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/arch

I think it would be very hard to judge subjective measurements like curved and symmetrical and instead will be based on the examples in the rules:
For an arch, the Primary Dimension could be measured:
i. with no load, from the base to the highest point of the arch
ii. with a load, from the base to the highest point of the load

The guidance I am giving my team is that an arch is different than a tower because it has to have two supports and span a distance vs. a square or rectangular tower base. But the variability of this event is what makes it interesting so we also emphasize reading, understanding the rules, and asking questions to clarify.
I'm just afraid that an arch that is built like a tower (for example, it's not curved) but with two supports would be disqualified for not meeting the requirements.
Solon MS/ DMAH
```2020:
Circuit Lab
Codebusters
Detector Building
Fossils
Gravity Vehicle

2019:
Circuit Lab
Mystery Architecture
Herp (invite season only)
Battery (invite season only)
```
```[b]Regionals/States/Nats:[/b]
Circuit: 1/1/_
Mystery: 1/2/_```

heiber
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 21st, 2017, 11:11 am
State: -

### Re: Mystery Architecture B

It defines an arch here on the official FAQ page: https://www.soinc.org/mystery-architecture-0
Looks to me like that is a copy and paste of the empirical definition of an arch: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/arch

I think it would be very hard to judge subjective measurements like curved and symmetrical and instead will be based on the examples in the rules:
For an arch, the Primary Dimension could be measured:
i. with no load, from the base to the highest point of the arch
ii. with a load, from the base to the highest point of the load

The guidance I am giving my team is that an arch is different than a tower because it has to have two supports and span a distance vs. a square or rectangular tower base. But the variability of this event is what makes it interesting so we also emphasize reading, understanding the rules, and asking questions to clarify.
I'm just afraid that an arch that is built like a tower (for example, it's not curved) but with two supports would be disqualified for not meeting the requirements.
Understood and worth thinking about. You could submit a question to the FAQ and ask for further clarification if that it is required. Also when at an event, have your team ask the people running for clarification.

Not to be obtuse but just sharing my experience having coached the event both last year and this year, they usually only care about the primary and secondary measurements and not about form and with the materials usually provided (and almost always having to support a load) cannot see how that would be achievable.

Would welcome input from others who have coached or run events. Thanks.