Ideally they should provide the Vigenere table, letters to numbers (A = 0, B = 1), Baconian table, modulo inverse (rarely), and texts for running key ciphers. They should also have frequency percentages for English and Spanish as well.mpnobivucyxtz wrote:Is there a standard format for this event? Last year's nationals test provided frequency tables and the Vigenere table as well, but some invitationals I've seen provide neither. What can I expect from regionals and states?
Codebusters C
- Longivitis
- Member
- Posts: 47
- Joined: February 17th, 2018, 7:19 am
- Division: Grad
- State: TX
- Pronouns: He/Him/His
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 45 times
- Contact:
Re: Codebusters C
University of Texas at Austin '23
Cypress Lakes High School '19
Chemistry Lab, Codebusters, Game On, Science Word, Towers, We've Got Your Number
Cypress Lakes High School '19
Chemistry Lab, Codebusters, Game On, Science Word, Towers, We've Got Your Number
- jimmy-bond
- Member
- Posts: 418
- Joined: January 8th, 2018, 11:25 pm
- Division: Grad
- State: OH
- Pronouns: He/Him/His
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 10 times
Re: Codebusters C
And unideally, you get nothing and have to do Vigenere the long way, write out the letters to numbers, manually calculate Baconian, and memorize the modulo inverse table as well as frequencies of English and Spanish letters. However this normally only comes up with student-made tests so I wouldn't worry about it at a higher level.Longivitis wrote:Ideally they should provide the Vigenere table, letters to numbers (A = 0, B = 1), Baconian table, modulo inverse (rarely), and texts for running key ciphers. They should also have frequency percentages for English and Spanish as well.mpnobivucyxtz wrote:Is there a standard format for this event? Last year's nationals test provided frequency tables and the Vigenere table as well, but some invitationals I've seen provide neither. What can I expect from regionals and states?
PCHS, HI '21 | CWRU, OH '25
Code(16), DD(40), FQ(39),4&6(36), WQ(27)
CriB(26), DP (11), FF(1), MM(14), P&P(6)
CriB(36), DD(35), FF(2), MM(20)
- Riptide
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 202
- Joined: December 4th, 2017, 7:09 pm
- Division: Grad
- State: TX
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Codebusters C
I don’t see any reason why event supervisors should provide a baconion table, modulo inverse, or even a letters to numbers table. Kind of takes away any skill gap this event could have for the non mono alphabetic ciphers. I do all the Vigenere by hand because it’s faster for me, but I can understand providing a table for that.jimmy-bond wrote:And unideally, you get nothing and have to do Vigenere the long way, write out the letters to numbers, manually calculate Baconian, and memorize the modulo inverse table as well as frequencies of English and Spanish letters. However this normally only comes up with student-made tests so I wouldn't worry about it at a higher level.Longivitis wrote:Ideally they should provide the Vigenere table, letters to numbers (A = 0, B = 1), Baconian table, modulo inverse (rarely), and texts for running key ciphers. They should also have frequency percentages for English and Spanish as well.mpnobivucyxtz wrote:Is there a standard format for this event? Last year's nationals test provided frequency tables and the Vigenere table as well, but some invitationals I've seen provide neither. What can I expect from regionals and states?
UC Berkeley
Seven Lakes High School '19
Seven Lakes High School '19
-
- Member
- Posts: 34
- Joined: January 22nd, 2018, 6:25 pm
- Division: C
- State: NY
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
Re: Codebusters C
For frequencies, I meant the frequency of the letters in a particular ciphertext. Usually seen on tests below the question, where you can fill in the plaintext letters.jimmy-bond wrote:And unideally, you get nothing and have to do Vigenere the long way, write out the letters to numbers, manually calculate Baconian, and memorize the modulo inverse table as well as frequencies of English and Spanish letters. However this normally only comes up with student-made tests so I wouldn't worry about it at a higher level.Longivitis wrote:Ideally they should provide the Vigenere table, letters to numbers (A = 0, B = 1), Baconian table, modulo inverse (rarely), and texts for running key ciphers. They should also have frequency percentages for English and Spanish as well.mpnobivucyxtz wrote:Is there a standard format for this event? Last year's nationals test provided frequency tables and the Vigenere table as well, but some invitationals I've seen provide neither. What can I expect from regionals and states?
- jimmy-bond
- Member
- Posts: 418
- Joined: January 8th, 2018, 11:25 pm
- Division: Grad
- State: OH
- Pronouns: He/Him/His
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 10 times
Re: Codebusters C
Yeah, they'll usually have that. If they do not provide it, the test maker just hates childrenmpnobivucyxtz wrote:For frequencies, I meant the frequency of the letters in a particular ciphertext. Usually seen on tests below the question, where you can fill in the plaintext letters.
PCHS, HI '21 | CWRU, OH '25
Code(16), DD(40), FQ(39),4&6(36), WQ(27)
CriB(26), DP (11), FF(1), MM(14), P&P(6)
CriB(36), DD(35), FF(2), MM(20)
- TheChiScientist
- Member
- Posts: 732
- Joined: March 11th, 2018, 11:25 am
- Division: Grad
- State: IL
- Pronouns: He/Him/His
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
Re: Codebusters C
^Facts. Try to memorize them the best you can in this case.jimmy-bond wrote:Yeah, they'll usually have that. If they do not provide it, the test maker just hates childrenmpnobivucyxtz wrote:For frequencies, I meant the frequency of the letters in a particular ciphertext. Usually seen on tests below the question, where you can fill in the plaintext letters.
A Science Olympian from 2015 - 2019 CLCSO Alumni
Medal Count:30
IL PPP/Mission Assistant State Supervisor.
CLC Div. B Tournament Director.
President of The Builder Cult.
"A true Science Olympian embraces a life without Science Olympiad by becoming a part of Science Olympiad itself"- Me
Medal Count:30
IL PPP/Mission Assistant State Supervisor.
CLC Div. B Tournament Director.
President of The Builder Cult.
"A true Science Olympian embraces a life without Science Olympiad by becoming a part of Science Olympiad itself"- Me
- Name
- Member
- Posts: 434
- Joined: January 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm
- Division: C
- State: NY
- Pronouns: He/Him/His
- Has thanked: 49 times
- Been thanked: 46 times
Re: Codebusters C
The average overall frequency table really isn't that useful, these are usually shorter quotes where frequencies can be skewed. Just know generally what is more common. The frequency of the particular cipher is more useful, but at least for aristocrats, I find word patterns are more useful, and not having the frequencies shouldn't be a huge problem. If they want to give a patristocrat with no frequencies though... Yeah have fun. I can't even do them with frequencies lolTheChiScientist wrote:^Facts. Try to memorize them the best you can in this case.jimmy-bond wrote:Yeah, they'll usually have that. If they do not provide it, the test maker just hates childrenmpnobivucyxtz wrote:For frequencies, I meant the frequency of the letters in a particular ciphertext. Usually seen on tests below the question, where you can fill in the plaintext letters.
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
1st place MIT Codebusters 2019-2020 1st place NYS Fermi Questions (2019), Astronomy and Codebusters (2021) Science Olympiad Founder's Scholarship winner
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 7:55 pm
- Has thanked: 9 times
- Been thanked: 0
Re: Codebusters C
Hey guys!
Do you know what the difference between K1, K2, and random alphabets are? I can't find a good definition online.
Also, for patristocrats, do you know what method is best to use? I know there are five listed on the wiki for monoalphabetic ciphers, but sometimes they don't always work when the spacings are messed up. For example, as has been said on this thread before, letter frequencies don't always work because the text can be so short.
Thanks!
Do you know what the difference between K1, K2, and random alphabets are? I can't find a good definition online.
Also, for patristocrats, do you know what method is best to use? I know there are five listed on the wiki for monoalphabetic ciphers, but sometimes they don't always work when the spacings are messed up. For example, as has been said on this thread before, letter frequencies don't always work because the text can be so short.
Thanks!
-
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 7:42 am
- Division: C
- State: PA
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 15 times
Re: Codebusters C
http://www.cryptogram.org/wp-content/th ... togram.pdf for your first questionAnonymous15 wrote:Hey guys!
Do you know what the difference between K1, K2, and random alphabets are? I can't find a good definition online.
Also, for patristocrats, do you know what method is best to use? I know there are five listed on the wiki for monoalphabetic ciphers, but sometimes they don't always work when the spacings are messed up. For example, as has been said on this thread before, letter frequencies don't always work because the text can be so short.
Thanks!
- pepperonipi
- Moderator
- Posts: 205
- Joined: January 21st, 2019, 11:38 am
- Division: C
- State: FL
- Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
- Has thanked: 174 times
- Been thanked: 336 times
Re: Codebusters C
1. K1 is when there is a keyword in the plaintext and K2 is when there is a keyword in the ciphertext. I believe random alphabets are, well, random alphabets - no particular order. Definitely check out the link UTF posted before this.Anonymous15 wrote:Hey guys!
Do you know what the difference between K1, K2, and random alphabets are? I can't find a good definition online.
Also, for patristocrats, do you know what method is best to use? I know there are five listed on the wiki for monoalphabetic ciphers, but sometimes they don't always work when the spacings are messed up. For example, as has been said on this thread before, letter frequencies don't always work because the text can be so short.
Thanks!
2. I don't know of any "superb, easy, ultra quick" method for patristocrats because I don't think one exists. Just keep guessing and keep an open mind because some words may be way different than the words you are thinking they are. For example, you could think seeing "TH" must correspond to "THE" when it actually corresponded to the end of "FIFTH."
Good luck!
happy new season!
University of Florida
My Wiki Page | WikiProject SciOly and Scioly.org | Pi-Bot
2019: Code, Fermi, Thermo
2020: Detector, Orni, Code (Substitution: Penn)
2021: Detector, Orni, Circuit, WICI
University of Florida
My Wiki Page | WikiProject SciOly and Scioly.org | Pi-Bot
2019: Code, Fermi, Thermo
2020: Detector, Orni, Code (Substitution: Penn)
2021: Detector, Orni, Circuit, WICI
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Amazon [Bot] and 2 guests