2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

jander14indoor
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby jander14indoor » June 7th, 2019, 8:47 am

Pushers, canards, and even this years tandems are just ways to get student's thinking about unconventional design approaches.
Dime bonus was just added mass, didn't even drive much in the way of design change, just forced students to demonstrate THEY knew how to adapt their plane since it was a 'surprise' factor on the day of competition.
For all of these variations, once you get the basic lift/stability set up, matching prop to rubber remains the KEY issue that drives need to test extensively.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

If you are already at competitive times for Nationals, relax, enjoy your summer. Maybe try an AMA class like Limited Penny Plane, or really challenge yourself and move into EZB or F1D.

If you aren't at competitive times for Nationals, pick the rules from any year and practice/test until you get there.

Once you can compete at high level, frankly, I don't think there is anything we can do with the rules that you can't figure out quickly and then spend time optimizing.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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klastyioer
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 7th, 2019, 1:16 pm

jeff,
do you think itd be better for me to try mini sticks or pennyplanes over the summer
we got 11th at nats and i think im ready to try something different
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
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Builder Cult >:)

'17 - Towers, Wright Stuff, rocks
'18 - Towers, Wright Stuff, Mystery Arch, road
'19 - Wright Stuff

coachchuckaahs
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby coachchuckaahs » June 7th, 2019, 8:01 pm

As Jeff said, build to any rules, and work to perfect your craft.

My kids did LPP. these were similar enough to SO planes that no new techniques were used, except we changed to thinned Duco. the motor stick took some testing samples from various sheets, but we found good motor sticks from a 6# sheet.. The props need decent C-grain wood, which is currently a bit hard to find, but you can get it. We used Sig (they had a fire though), and had 7+ pound wood, but still made min weight.

The construction is not that different from FFM kits.

Coach Chuck

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby jander14indoor » June 7th, 2019, 8:15 pm

Whatever trips your trigger.
Limited Penny Plane is a typical next step. Very doable with hobby shop wood if you select carefully. Capable of very impressive performance without being too fragile. Frankly I'd suggest you start here.

Mini-sticks are several steps harder to hit min weight, but can be built with hobby shop wood. Can be tricky to trim, they tend to have poor launch behavior,

Frankly, if you want a real challenge, but very doable, consider the Hobby Shopper EZB on Indoor News and Views. Detailed build article with a WEALTH of hints and tips on building light but strong. You can build a 700 to 1000 mg plane, yes milligrams with a wingspan of 18 inches, capable of 20+ minutes flight at a big site. If you can build one of these, there isn't anything you can't build.

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Livonia, MI

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builderguy135
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby builderguy135 » June 7th, 2019, 8:38 pm

jander14indoor wrote:Whatever trips your trigger.
Limited Penny Plane is a typical next step. Very doable with hobby shop wood if you select carefully. Capable of very impressive performance without being too fragile. Frankly I'd suggest you start here.

Mini-sticks are several steps harder to hit min weight, but can be built with hobby shop wood. Can be tricky to trim, they tend to have poor launch behavior,

Frankly, if you want a real challenge, but very doable, consider the Hobby Shopper EZB on Indoor News and Views. Detailed build article with a WEALTH of hints and tips on building light but strong. You can build a 700 to 1000 mg plane, yes milligrams with a wingspan of 18 inches, capable of 20+ minutes flight at a big site. If you can build one of these, there isn't anything you can't build.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI


Do you have any suggestions for LPP designs I could find online (hpa maybe?) that are easier to build?
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby bjt4888 » June 8th, 2019, 6:27 am

Builder,

Try this one:

https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hp ... ic=16691.0

There are a number of good basic designs, but as there is a Hip Pocket Aero build thread on this design, would help with questions.

Also try Bill Gowen’s (Olbill on Hip Pocket) carbon rod hub flaring propeller.

Brian T

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby bjt4888 » June 8th, 2019, 7:08 am

Builder,

Also, see the video in this thread. Indoor junior F1D team member building a LPP in a little more than an hour.

https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hp ... ic=14791.0

You will see that much of the Cezar Banks LPP thread is too basic for an experienced WS flier, but a number of the pros contribute ideas that are worth reading.

You can cover with OS film, the best fliers do this in order to reserve more of the weight budget for the motor stick and wing and stab spars. But, you can also do fine covering with super Ultrafilm (cheaper). The video show covering with condenser paper. I would not recommend this as it contracts and expands with humidity changes resulting in possible structure warping.

Also, it’s not that hard to build a simple prop blade mounting jig from scrap balsa instead of using the paper jig shown in the video. One more small thing; the video shows the prop blades being formed for only one hour. You can form on a 4” diameter cylinder or on a helical form (Mike Kirda sells these or you can build) and bake in an oven at about 180-200 degrees for 20 minutes or leave overnight to air dry. I wrap the blades onto a cylinder style form tightly with thin gauze bandage material (not tape or rubber strip as shown in the thread and video).

Brian T

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby coachchuckaahs » June 8th, 2019, 7:48 am

I highly recommend Bill's carbon penny. Builds similar to ffm model, eliminates balsa selection for spars. Not hard to build at all.

For props, we used microwave on level 4 for 3 minutes.

Coach Chuck

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby bjt4888 » June 8th, 2019, 5:43 pm

I agree with Coach Chuck, Bill’s carbon penny is very good and not that much more effort to build than the Cezar Banks design.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 9th, 2019, 8:53 am

thank you all so much for the info and suggestions
i think im going to start with the lpp and work my way to the ministick
best of luck to anyone whos trying lpp this summer
we should totally make a lpp subforum here for summer "studying" (more like building)
or at least hop over on the hpa forums
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
-
Builder Cult >:)

'17 - Towers, Wright Stuff, rocks
'18 - Towers, Wright Stuff, Mystery Arch, road
'19 - Wright Stuff

bjt4888
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby bjt4888 » June 9th, 2019, 10:42 am

K,

You will get good feedback by starting a build and fly thread on HPA. Be sure to read all of the existing HPA LPP threads first (probably you’ve already done this).

Brian T

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klastyioer
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 9th, 2019, 11:43 am

bjt4888 wrote:K,

You will get good feedback by starting a build and fly thread on HPA. Be sure to read all of the existing HPA LPP threads first (probably you’ve already done this).

Brian T

lol yeah youre right ive read a majority of them so far
im going to read the rest this summer
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
-
Builder Cult >:)

'17 - Towers, Wright Stuff, rocks
'18 - Towers, Wright Stuff, Mystery Arch, road
'19 - Wright Stuff

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klastyioer
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 12th, 2019, 5:44 am

anyone have any good lpp plans that do not have cf?
i dont want to buy cf and waste my money on it : /
id rather use what we have right now
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
-
Builder Cult >:)

'17 - Towers, Wright Stuff, rocks
'18 - Towers, Wright Stuff, Mystery Arch, road
'19 - Wright Stuff

jander14indoor
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby jander14indoor » June 12th, 2019, 7:44 am

As with Wright Stuff. Most any plan you find on line will work for a Limited Penny Plane. And most are balsa based.
The key for a good LPP (of any design) is CAREFUL balsa selection for max stiffness while hitting target weight. Particularly spars. Which is why some flyers have gone carbon. But you can do it with balsa.
The motor stick is short and thick enough that stiff enough isn't hard there.
Some designs:
Indoor News and Views is your friend.
Page 58 to 63 of this PDF has a couple of successful designs (and many other class designs to explore):
https://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpr ... esigns.pdf
Not sure, been too many years, but this may have been the first one I built:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3630318 ... ohn-Barker
INAV again, page 4, the classic Cezar Banks LPP:
https://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpr ... v-137a.pdf

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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klastyioer
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 12th, 2019, 4:50 pm

jander14indoor wrote:As with Wright Stuff. Most any plan you find on line will work for a Limited Penny Plane. And most are balsa based.
The key for a good LPP (of any design) is CAREFUL balsa selection for max stiffness while hitting target weight. Particularly spars. Which is why some flyers have gone carbon. But you can do it with balsa.
The motor stick is short and thick enough that stiff enough isn't hard there.
Some designs:
Indoor News and Views is your friend.
Page 58 to 63 of this PDF has a couple of successful designs (and many other class designs to explore):
https://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpr ... esigns.pdf
Not sure, been too many years, but this may have been the first one I built:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3630318 ... ohn-Barker
INAV again, page 4, the classic Cezar Banks LPP:
https://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpr ... v-137a.pdf

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI


thank you so much, ill take a look at them
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
-
Builder Cult >:)

'17 - Towers, Wright Stuff, rocks
'18 - Towers, Wright Stuff, Mystery Arch, road
'19 - Wright Stuff


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