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JoeyC
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Re: Politics

Post by JoeyC » March 12th, 2020, 8:01 pm

I mean S.Korea isn't exactly like the United States in terms of political organization or other like things. Also S.Korea already got scared by SARS so...

The U.S. government isn't handling it as well as it could be admittedly, but for a country as diverse and complicated as the U.S., this doesn't come as a surprise.
In U.S. the power is really more in the people than the government - especially as a notable majority refuse to give it to the government (not without cause).
Therefore we can't reasonably expect our government to handle this that effectively as others - but we do experience other benefits due to this in other fields.
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MTV<=>Operator (March 12th, 2020, 8:06 pm)
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Re: Politics

Post by MTV<=>Operator » March 12th, 2020, 8:12 pm

JoeyC wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:01 pm
I mean S.Korea isn't exactly like the United States in terms of political organization or other like things. Also S.Korea already got scared by SARS so...

The U.S. government isn't handling it as well as it could be admittedly, but for a country as diverse and complicated as the U.S., this doesn't come as a surprise.
In U.S. the power is really more in the people than the government - especially as a notable majority refuse to give it to the government (not without cause).
Therefore we can't reasonably expect our government to handle this that effectively as others - but we do experience other benefits due to this in other fields.
Yeah it makes sense, I guess I'm just more concerned that the power is in the people, but many of the people are misinformed and even ignorant as to the gravity of this situation and others. Sorry that last post sounded like a complaint. It came mostly from stress I guess, it seems like its spreading at an increasing rate and not really showing signs of improvement.
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Re: Politics

Post by Things2do » March 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm

Interesting articles... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... eople.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/las-vegas ... -city/amp/

A,pandemic is defined as occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population. - Merriam-Webster
Could someone please explain how this is a pandemic?
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Re: Politics

Post by Unome » March 12th, 2020, 8:50 pm

Things2do wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Interesting articles... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... eople.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/las-vegas ... -city/amp/

A,pandemic is defined as occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population. - Merriam-Webster
Could someone please explain how this is a pandemic?
It doesn't matter what we call it. The term "pandemic" has a variety of vaguely similar definitions that all deal with worldwide spread. Most people will probably be using the WHO definition (though I haven't followed this part of the news since I don't really care what it's called - that doesn't change whatever is happening).
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Re: Politics

Post by Things2do » March 12th, 2020, 8:52 pm

Unome wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:50 pm
Things2do wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Interesting articles... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... eople.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/las-vegas ... -city/amp/

A,pandemic is defined as occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population. - Merriam-Webster
Could someone please explain how this is a pandemic?
It doesn't matter what we call it. The term "pandemic" has a variety of vaguely similar definitions that all deal with worldwide spread. Most people will probably be using the WHO definition (though I haven't followed this part of the news since I don't really care what it's called - that doesn't change whatever is happening).
Yeah it does... A friend of mine's family is almost out of toilet paper, and they can't find anywhere to buy more.
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Re: Politics

Post by Unome » March 12th, 2020, 9:10 pm

Things2do wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:52 pm
Unome wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:50 pm
Things2do wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Interesting articles... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... eople.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/las-vegas ... -city/amp/

A,pandemic is defined as occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population. - Merriam-Webster
Could someone please explain how this is a pandemic?
It doesn't matter what we call it. The term "pandemic" has a variety of vaguely similar definitions that all deal with worldwide spread. Most people will probably be using the WHO definition (though I haven't followed this part of the news since I don't really care what it's called - that doesn't change whatever is happening).
Yeah it does... A friend of mine's family is almost out of toilet paper, and they can't find anywhere to buy more.
Whether it's called a pandemic doesn't change the disease epidemiology. Of course, it's possible that the WHO declaration caused people to buy more toilet paper, but these toilet paper reports have been going on for a while now, whereas WHO declared this a pandemic within the last day or so.
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Re: Politics

Post by MadCow2357 » March 12th, 2020, 9:21 pm

MTV<=>Operator wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 7:50 pm
That being said, other than being a powerful first world country I don't have many good things to say about the United States myself. I just don't see how such a wealthy and powerful country could limit testing for the virus to people who were in certain countries or can prove they contacted someone who tested positive. South Korea tests 20,000 people on a daily basis for the virus yet we don't have enough testing kits to test everyone that feels as though they may have the virus? Who knows how many people have it that were not able to be tested? Our government just doesn't seem to be handling this effectively. Not to mention many people in the country legitimately think the virus was caused by or worsened by the democrats and the media.
The shortage of testing kits in the US can partially be attributed to us refusing fully developed WHO testing kits a while ago, instead deciding to develop our own testing kit (which in short, has been a disaster). This is where national pride literally translates to "American arrogance", and now thousands of lives will be lost to one individual's highly ignorant decision.

That being said, we don't know who that individual is, because they know that they will get brutally attacked or perhaps even beaten to death if they admit that the decision was theirs.

If I've given false information, I apologize in advance. I have not fact-checked everything here, most is based off of research I heard secondhand. Feel free to criticize or point out mistakes ;)
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Re: Politics

Post by Things2do » March 12th, 2020, 10:34 pm

Unome wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:10 pm
Things2do wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:52 pm
Unome wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 8:50 pm


It doesn't matter what we call it. The term "pandemic" has a variety of vaguely similar definitions that all deal with worldwide spread. Most people will probably be using the WHO definition (though I haven't followed this part of the news since I don't really care what it's called - that doesn't change whatever is happening).
Yeah it does... A friend of mine's family is almost out of toilet paper, and they can't find anywhere to buy more.
Whether it's called a pandemic doesn't change the disease epidemiology. Of course, it's possible that the WHO declaration caused people to buy more toilet paper, but these toilet paper reports have been going on for a while now, whereas WHO declared this a pandemic within the last day or so.
The media has been using the term "pandemic" for a while now, in addition to saying that people need to be prepared for a extended quarantine. I wasn't specifically asking about the WHO, but more everyone that's been using terms along those lines. That TP remark was supposed to be funny...
MTV<=>Operator wrote:Not to mention many people in the country legitimately think the virus was caused by or worsened by the democrats and the media.
Caused by them? No. Public reaction to it worsened by them? Yes.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 42539.html
MadCow2357 wrote:and now thousands of lives will be lost to one individual's highly ignorant decision.
Thousands of lives? That sounds high, especially given the current death toll.

For those that have been chiding the US response and talking about how well China, Italy, South Korea, and wherever else have been handling the spread, what do you think of the far right column, "Total Cases/1M Population"? Even accounting for the approximate amount of time, since I have yet to find a graph of the various case rates by time of first case and country and these are therefore assumptions from here on, that the virus has been in various places, the case rate seems to be lower in the US.
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Re: Politics

Post by EwwPhysics » March 13th, 2020, 6:39 am

SilverBreeze wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 7:30 pm
"without a second thought about others" The average human being is capable of compassion and thought.
I beg to differ ;)

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Re: Politics

Post by JoeyC » March 13th, 2020, 9:15 am

SilverBreeze wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 7:30 pm
NewSciolyer wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 3:54 pm
I think there's no way a Capitalist country like the US can effectively stop this outbreak. China (don't want to say have it easy, but compared to the US) is able to quarantine and cut off cities and its people are fine with that. Chinese citizens don't know what freedom is. They don't even know what rights are.

The US, however, can't follow China's footsteps or else there will be revolts happening all around the country. They will demand freedom to go wherever they please without a second thought about others (the minority, of course). Stock market and businesses will suffer.
"I think there's no way a Capitalist country like the US can effectively stop this outbreak." And why not? Protests are a thing in any country, most people in the US are not braindead and at least understand CV has the potential to be serious, and even with a democracy, most citizens can't just march into government and change things directly.
"its people are fine with that." Having relatives in China, I would like to strongly disagree.
"Chinese citizens don't know what freedom is. They don't even know what rights are." No, just.... no. Have you lived there yourself as a citizen? Do you know what it's like?
"there will be revolts happening all around the country" Protests, maybe(bad idea). Angry letters, maybe. But I don't foresee bloody overthrows and civil war over a matter of disease control.
"without a second thought about others" The average human being is capable of compassion and thought.
I'm not gonna comment on all of this, but a few points:
-Chinese people aren't completely brainwashed
-U.S. government really can't quarantine people how China is right now - both by the division in the government and the nature of China's quarantine being unachievable with how the U.S. operates and its people
- Looking back in history, I can't agree with the last statement
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