First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

bjt4888
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by bjt4888 »

Carrot,

We use the two pins on a stick. Works great and applies a perfect size glue drop for small joints like ribs to spars. For bigger joints like attaching a tailboom or a nose bearing to the fuselage apply two or three drops with the double pin applicator. This creative tool was invented by a 12-year-old. Always apply the correct amount of heavy glues like CA. One drop from the double pin applicator is about 3 mg.

Gorilla glue medium viscosity CA is ok. We use Zap Green med vis CA. Most important to buy fresh glue. My teams buy from Stevens Aero. Buying from an established modeling hobby vendor ensures fresh. They value their reputation. Buying from a Hobby Lobby or similar can sometimes get you glue that’s been on the shelf for six months.

Brian T
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by coachchuckaahs »

The capillary tool (two pins on a balsa stick) works with THIN Ca, not medium. Generally for indoor planes medium is too heavy, but WS is a heavy plane, so some get away with it. We exclusively use thin, with a capillary applicator. You must have a good joint first, the thin will not bridge a gap. But if using gap filling (medium), it bridges, is heavy, and gets brittle when bridging. You still want a good joint!

You can watch a video by NFFS at https://youtu.be/owWmW_D6WYQ on basic gluing techniques.

Coach Chuck
Coach, Albuquerque Area Home Schoolers Flying Events
Nationals Results:
2016 C WS 8th place
2018 B WS 2nd place
2018 C Heli Champion
2019 B ELG 3rd place
2019 C WS Champion
AMA Results: 3 AAHS members qualify for US Jr Team in F1D, 4 new youth senior records
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by carrrot »

I see...thank you both!

I was wondering where I should test? As in, how much open space should there be and how high should the ceiling be? Also, if I was only putting half the normal winds in, how much space would I need? (I know a school gym is ideal but that is a bit tricky.) I would appreciate any help.

Thank you.
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by carrrot »

Hi

I have a question on how to get my plane to gain height/climb. Any info would be appreciated.

I have been testing my plane a little bit. I don't put that many winds in (I do 300 or so), for fear of hitting a wall or something like that (I, unfortunately, have not gotten access to a gym or other similarly sized space).

When I put 300 or so winds in, the plane sort of glides down relatively steadily (no major stalling or dropping) and curves (probably at an angle that is too much). However, it does not climb at all. So is the problem just that I'm not putting enough winds in for it to climb at all? Or could there be other issues (considering my plane is not stalling/dropping)?

Also, does anyone have any tips for when you have to test (for a competition or something like that) in a smaller space? Obviously, that is not ideal, but I was just wondering.

I would appreciate any information. Thank you.
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by CookiePie1 »

carrrot wrote: December 1st, 2021, 3:58 pm Hi

I have a question on how to get my plane to gain height/climb. Any info would be appreciated.

I have been testing my plane a little bit. I don't put that many winds in (I do 300 or so), for fear of hitting a wall or something like that (I, unfortunately, have not gotten access to a gym or other similarly sized space).

When I put 300 or so winds in, the plane sort of glides down relatively steadily (no major stalling or dropping) and curves (probably at an angle that is too much). However, it does not climb at all. So is the problem just that I'm not putting enough winds in for it to climb at all? Or could there be other issues (considering my plane is not stalling/dropping)?

Also, does anyone have any tips for when you have to test (for a competition or something like that) in a smaller space? Obviously, that is not ideal, but I was just wondering.

I would appreciate any information. Thank you.
You will need to have more torque/winds to climb, but if your plane is banking too much, adding more winds will make it roll over due to the torque. Try to decrease the angle at which the wing is tilted, then add more winds.
South Brunswick High School Captain '22
2020 Events: Protein Modeling, Ping Pong Parachute, Wright Stuff, Sounds of Music
2021 Events: Protein Modeling, Sounds of Music, Ornithology
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by carrrot »

Thank you for the help!
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by coachchuckaahs »

carrrot wrote: November 21st, 2021, 8:20 pm I see...thank you both!

I was wondering where I should test? As in, how much open space should there be and how high should the ceiling be? Also, if I was only putting half the normal winds in, how much space would I need? (I know a school gym is ideal but that is a bit tricky.) I would appreciate any help.

Thank you.
Hey, sorry, I missed this request while out hunting.

Best place to test is in a gymnasium or large ballroom. OI think you need at least 50 feet across in each direction, and a 20' ceiling (higher is better). Note: Low ceiling flying is a special skill, but if learned, it can be an advantage!

Putting in half winds is not the right way to do things. If you have a low ceiling (but still at least 50x50, and that would be minimum), you want to use a half motor (same rubber width, half the length, 0.75g), and replace the back half of the motor with a stick (hooks on each end) that also weighs 0.75g. Now you wind to the SAME TORQUE as your full motor (half the winds), and the plane will fly to half the height and half the time. This is FAR DIFFERENT form just winding your motor halfway!

Hope this helps

Coach Chuck
Coach, Albuquerque Area Home Schoolers Flying Events
Nationals Results:
2016 C WS 8th place
2018 B WS 2nd place
2018 C Heli Champion
2019 B ELG 3rd place
2019 C WS Champion
AMA Results: 3 AAHS members qualify for US Jr Team in F1D, 4 new youth senior records
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by coachchuckaahs »

carrrot wrote: December 1st, 2021, 3:58 pm Hi

I have a question on how to get my plane to gain height/climb. Any info would be appreciated.

I have been testing my plane a little bit. I don't put that many winds in (I do 300 or so), for fear of hitting a wall or something like that (I, unfortunately, have not gotten access to a gym or other similarly sized space).

When I put 300 or so winds in, the plane sort of glides down relatively steadily (no major stalling or dropping) and curves (probably at an angle that is too much). However, it does not climb at all. So is the problem just that I'm not putting enough winds in for it to climb at all? Or could there be other issues (considering my plane is not stalling/dropping)?

Also, does anyone have any tips for when you have to test (for a competition or something like that) in a smaller space? Obviously, that is not ideal, but I was just wondering.

I would appreciate any information. Thank you.

As others have stated, 300 is very low winds, you don't have enough torque to climb. We typically run about 500-600 winds for non-climbing trim flights, and 1500 or more winds (depending on rubber width) for full flights.

If your plane is rolling in at that low a torque, you need to look for things that are not straight. Also, you need to get the decalage (difference in incidence between wing and stab) such that it flies more or less level even at these low powers. Increase decalage until your low power flight has a slight stall, then back off 1mm and you will be pretty close (assuming your CG is right).

If it is rolling in at higher torque, you may need to add a little wash-in on the left wing. This means twisting things such that the leading edge on the left wing has a little more incidence (1-2mm) than the right wing. More wash is more drag, it does not take much. I don't think we are running any yet this year. You can break the leading edge and reglue it, or break the posts off and reglue, or in some cases apply some pressure to bend the front wing post to the right, raising the left leading edge slightly.

But, first you need a large enough area that the walls are not an issue. Ceiling you can work with, but walls not so much.

Coach Chuck
Coach, Albuquerque Area Home Schoolers Flying Events
Nationals Results:
2016 C WS 8th place
2018 B WS 2nd place
2018 C Heli Champion
2019 B ELG 3rd place
2019 C WS Champion
AMA Results: 3 AAHS members qualify for US Jr Team in F1D, 4 new youth senior records
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Re: First time doing Wright Stuff...some questions

Post by jander14indoor »

3M77 question already answered, but I'll comment, almost ANY good sprayable contact adhesive will work fine. The advantage of sprayable over UHU type glues is it is possible to add less weight, AND less likely to damage the frame. Oh, and sprayable glues work just FINE with paper coverings.

Also general comment, DON'T obsess on the covering. Indoor mylar will save you a VERY small amount of weight, but is much harder to handle. VERY adequate and light is produce bags and dry cleaner bags.

That looks like the picture of a precision micro super glue applicator (two pins stuck through a stick) I use in my presentations so I'll take a stab at that one. And comment on accelerator, and CA glue type.
- The advantage of the precision micro super glue applicator is that by varying the spacing of the pins you can change the amount of glue you can pick up with a dip into your glue puddle. Can't do that with a toothpick. Personally, I've never had much luck with a toothpick or single piece of wire, though some do.
- Accelerator. I mainly use it to speed up glue setting. CA glue sets by reaction that is kicked off by some sort of catalyst. The most common is humidity in the air. Accelerator is another, very powerful catalyst, kicks the reaction FAST. In the north of the country where I live, it tends to be VERY dry in our overheated homes, so "INSTANT" setting CAN can be VERY non-instant. So I use it regularly.
- Now, on the comment of using it because you don't want to hold the part long, WHY AREN'T YOU FIXTURING it in place so you don't NEED to hold it, bad practice. Unless perhaps you are doing a field repair, when yes it is handy.
- CA consistency. I only use thin, personally. CA is a VERY bad gap filling material, brittle, adds weight fast. If you are using the precision micro super glue applicator, it wicks into the joint via capillary action. Medium CA requires a larger gap than thin. Tight joints are stronger and lighter, so I make sure my joints are tight and use thin CA to wick down between the parts, which it does VERY well.
- OH, and as someone mentioned, and I'll foot stomp. CA glue goes bad after time, getting thicker and thicker. Medium starts thicker, so tends to have a shorter shelf life than thin.
- Related, accelerator use has an impact on shelf life. DON'T use the convenient spray top on the bottle it comes in! It fills the air in your build space with a VERY powerful catalyst, some of which migrates into your superglue bottle, shortening its life. Instead, use a pipette or eye dropper to apply VERY small amounts to you joints directly. I don't even use a small drop, I squeeze the dropper until some just bulges out the end and then wick it onto the joint. This is powerful stuff, it will set that glue NOW. Use it sparingly

Good luck,

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI
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