Herpetology B/C

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Herpetology B/C

Postby bernard » August 31st, 2017, 12:20 pm

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby gavinnupp » September 5th, 2017, 7:22 am

"[Either field guide or binder]"
Herpetology Official Division C Rules

I noticed that it says "or" rather than "and" in reference to a binder and field guide. In previous taxonomy competitions I believe both have been allowed simultaneously; teams would be allowed to have a binder AND a field guide. Why the change?
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby John Richardsim » September 5th, 2017, 7:27 am

gavinnupp wrote:
I noticed that it says "or" rather than "and" in reference to a binder and field guide. In previous taxonomy competitions I believe both have been allowed simultaneously; teams would be allowed to have a binder AND a field guide. Why the change?

There seems to be a greater push for student-made resources in recent years.

Also be careful with quotation of the rules; scioly site rules limit how much can be directly quoted to one line (preferably less). I've edited your post to paraphrase the section in question.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby varunscs11 » September 5th, 2017, 7:29 am

gavinnupp wrote:
I noticed that it says "or" rather than "and" in reference to a binder and field guide. In previous taxonomy competitions I believe both have been allowed simultaneously; teams would be allowed to have a binder AND a field guide. Why the change?


I'm guessing the national committee wants to change the way ID events are done. I mean for biologic ID events it was always 1 sheet of notes and a field guide but they changed that with invasives because there was no field guide. I'm guessing they liked how the event turned out with the binder and want to change the strategy for ID events. The only events that used to have the field guide and binder were the geologic ID event and in 2017 they got rid of the field guide for rocks. Personally, I think it's a very interesting change to the rules because now teams have to decide which resource they want to use and how they are going to deal with the shortcomings of each resource.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby dragonfruit35 » September 5th, 2017, 8:25 am

varunscs11 wrote:
gavinnupp wrote:
I noticed that it says "or" rather than "and" in reference to a binder and field guide. In previous taxonomy competitions I believe both have been allowed simultaneously; teams would be allowed to have a binder AND a field guide. Why the change?


I'm guessing the national committee wants to change the way ID events are done. I mean for biologic ID events it was always 1 sheet of notes and a field guide but they changed that with invasives because there was no field guide. I'm guessing they liked how the event turned out with the binder and want to change the strategy for ID events. The only events that used to have the field guide and binder were the geologic ID event and in 2017 they got rid of the field guide for rocks. Personally, I think it's a very interesting change to the rules because now teams have to decide which resource they want to use and how they are going to deal with the shortcomings of each resource.


Yeah, I've done Bio ID events with both styles (Herpetology Trial and Invasives) and it's definitely very different. When you only have the field guide and one page of notes, you have to figure out what your field guide doesn't have (there WILL be something) and attempt to put it on one sheet of paper, and when you have a binder you're just trying to cram in everything you can without adding unnecessary detail. Just a field guide would be interesting since there's not a high chance the one you pick will have EVERY aspect of the given topic- for example, our Herpetology field guide didn't include the diets of most species. We were allowed to put sticky notes in, though.

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Unome » September 5th, 2017, 8:36 am

dragonfruit35 wrote:
varunscs11 wrote:
gavinnupp wrote:
I noticed that it says "or" rather than "and" in reference to a binder and field guide. In previous taxonomy competitions I believe both have been allowed simultaneously; teams would be allowed to have a binder AND a field guide. Why the change?


I'm guessing the national committee wants to change the way ID events are done. I mean for biologic ID events it was always 1 sheet of notes and a field guide but they changed that with invasives because there was no field guide. I'm guessing they liked how the event turned out with the binder and want to change the strategy for ID events. The only events that used to have the field guide and binder were the geologic ID event and in 2017 they got rid of the field guide for rocks. Personally, I think it's a very interesting change to the rules because now teams have to decide which resource they want to use and how they are going to deal with the shortcomings of each resource.


Yeah, I've done Bio ID events with both styles (Herpetology Trial and Invasives) and it's definitely very different. When you only have the field guide and one page of notes, you have to figure out what your field guide doesn't have (there WILL be something) and attempt to put it on one sheet of paper, and when you have a binder you're just trying to cram in everything you can without adding unnecessary detail. Just a field guide would be interesting since there's not a high chance the one you pick will have EVERY aspect of the given topic- for example, our Herpetology field guide didn't include the diets of most species. We were allowed to put sticky notes in, though.

I like the change - in many cases the field guide was superfluous at higher levels, but leaving in the option makes it possible to compete without spending 100+ hours on a quality binder.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Magikarpmaster629 » September 5th, 2017, 9:41 am

So how does this change reflect on being able to bring a hole-punched field guide inside a binder? The information in the binder may be in any form, and may be removed during competition, so naturally bringing a field guide inside a binder would be effectively the same as just bringing both, with the side effect of having a larger binder. I guess this is one for the rules clarification.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby ScottMaurer19 » September 5th, 2017, 9:46 am

Magikarpmaster629 wrote:So how does this change reflect on being able to bring a hole-punched field guide inside a binder? The information in the binder may be in any form, and may be removed during competition, so naturally bringing a field guide inside a binder would be effectively the same as just bringing both, with the side effect of having a larger binder. I guess this is one for the rules clarification.

The answer will likely be that having a field guide in a binder is not allowed. They will likely quote that it is not in the spirit of the rules but go ahead and ask.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby gavinnupp » September 5th, 2017, 10:20 am

Magikarpmaster629 wrote:So how does this change reflect on being able to bring a hole-punched field guide inside a binder? The information in the binder may be in any form, and may be removed during competition, so naturally bringing a field guide inside a binder would be effectively the same as just bringing both, with the side effect of having a larger binder. I guess this is one for the rules clarification.


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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Skink » September 5th, 2017, 3:13 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
Magikarpmaster629 wrote:So how does this change reflect on being able to bring a hole-punched field guide inside a binder? The information in the binder may be in any form, and may be removed during competition, so naturally bringing a field guide inside a binder would be effectively the same as just bringing both, with the side effect of having a larger binder. I guess this is one for the rules clarification.

The answer will likely be that having a field guide in a binder is not allowed. They will likely quote that it is not in the spirit of the rules but go ahead and ask.

I don't believe this is accurate. The wording "in any form from any source" is unambiguous; the entire point behind the binder is that the limit is your time/money/binder width. Having said that, the field guide bit is an artifact from the last time the event was ran. There's not a lot to be gained from hole punching a field guide because they're information-light, and, if you can't ID the specimens, you won't make it far, anyway. Certain other materials, on the other hand? I'm already investigating book destruction. ;)

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Person » September 5th, 2017, 5:25 pm

Official list put up here. It's interesting that they're allowing modified state/regs lists...I don't know if this was always the case for bio ID events, but I don't recall it happening in Entomology.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Froggie » September 5th, 2017, 5:27 pm

Person wrote:Official list put up here. It's interesting that they're allowing modified state/regs lists...I don't know if this was always the case for bio ID events, but I don't recall it happening in Entomology.

It was allowed in invasives I think (I don't know about div c).
Also I'm excited to see that it is or is very close to the NY trial list.
Last edited by Froggie on September 23rd, 2017, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Person » September 5th, 2017, 5:40 pm

Froggie wrote:
Person wrote:Official list put up here. It's interesting that they're allowing modified state/regs lists...I don't know if this was always the case for bio ID events, but I don't recall it happening in Entomology.

It was allowed in invasives I think (I don't knkow about div c).
Also I'm excited to see that it is or is very close to the NY trial list.

Yeah, I do remember that invasives had it.
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby Fluorine » September 5th, 2017, 7:03 pm

Person wrote:
Froggie wrote:
Person wrote:Official list put up here. It's interesting that they're allowing modified state/regs lists...I don't know if this was always the case for bio ID events, but I don't recall it happening in Entomology.

It was allowed in invasives I think (I don't knkow about div c).
Also I'm excited to see that it is or is very close to the NY trial list.

Yeah, I do remember that invasives had it.

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby windu34 » September 6th, 2017, 10:24 pm

Magikarpmaster629 wrote:So how does this change reflect on being able to bring a hole-punched field guide inside a binder? The information in the binder may be in any form, and may be removed during competition, so naturally bringing a field guide inside a binder would be effectively the same as just bringing both, with the side effect of having a larger binder. I guess this is one for the rules clarification.

That is not effective. The best way is to copy all the information in the field guide and have it in your binder on the notesheet for each taxon. The name of the game is speed
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