Sounds of Music C

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby Riptide » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:08 am

chalker wrote:
terence.tan wrote:
TheSquaad wrote:Also, the rules say that the best value during the five seconds will be counted for the pitch score. Does this mean that if you had, say a Slide whistle, and slid from a flat F to a sharp F during those 5 seconds—because you hit an in tune F at some point, you would get max points?

that is a clever idea but only deices with a quick decay time can have multiple attacks on the note. ( hitting a mallet or plucking string) and a slide whistle doesnt meet those constraints


I think everyone is missing a very important part of that rule, which is the first few words that say you can only play 1 pitch....

At what point would it not be considered one pitch? Just as an example, if you were on let’s say a string instrument like a violin, you can place your finger down on an ‘A’ and then rotate it very slightly so that it covers what is most definitely the exact cent of 440 (assuming it’s A4). It wouldn’t sound as a different pitch at all, just very fine adjustments in the intonation that would be barely noticeable to the ear but would basically be guaranteed full points. I’m not sure if I made any sense just now but it’s hard for me to describe.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:13 am

Riptide wrote:
chalker wrote:
terence.tan wrote:that is a clever idea but only deices with a quick decay time can have multiple attacks on the note. ( hitting a mallet or plucking string) and a slide whistle doesnt meet those constraints


I think everyone is missing a very important part of that rule, which is the first few words that say you can only play 1 pitch....

At what point would it not be considered one pitch? Just as an example, if you were on let’s say a string instrument like a violin, you can place your finger down on an ‘A’ and then rotate it very slightly so that it covers what is most definitely the exact cent of 440 (assuming it’s A4). It wouldn’t sound as a different pitch at all, just very fine adjustments in the intonation that would be barely noticeable to the ear but would basically be guaranteed full points. I’m not sure if I made any sense just now but it’s hard for me to describe.

If you're sliding on a slide whistle, it's obviously not one pitch. But I think the main takeaway is that you shouldn't press your luck as to flexibility of the rules.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby memeus » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:21 pm

For creating a 3D printed stringed instrument what is considered a modification? Would it be considered original I used a 3D scanner to scan an instrument to be a base starting file to render off of? Or, would it still be considered original to use files off of sources like Thingiverse and modify those. And, what would be considered a modification?
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby windu34 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:37 pm

memeus wrote:For creating a 3D printed stringed instrument what is considered a modification? Would it be considered original I used a 3D scanner to scan an instrument to be a base starting file to render off of? Or, would it still be considered original to use files off of sources like Thingiverse and modify those. And, what would be considered a modification?

Not official etc etc, but if youre gonna 3D print an instrument, I think youre covered on the modification and have much bigger things to worry about. I would seriously consider the amount of tension you will be placing on the printed parts and think about (or calculate) deformation. I would be very worried about keeping a 3D printed string instrument in tune
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 pm

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:
SciolyMaster wrote:
Anomaly wrote:This is under the lab event section because along with the build portion, there is a test section as well.

Why can't it be under both?

This way, all of the information about the event is gatheted together. If this thread gets really active, the mods might make a subforum for the build like they did with thermo.

The general preference is to have only one thread for each event for the hybrid lab events that have both test and device portions. If there is significant forum support to put these hybrid events into the Build forums, or to create a new "Hybrid Events" subforum, then that is something we can consider, but right now the policy using Lab Events has worked.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby trdd » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:46 pm

I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby nicholasmaurer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:53 pm

trdd wrote:I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.


In a perfect world all ES would have access to high-quality measurement devices and use these for competition. However, this is not always practical or affordable. While I hesitate to speak for the rules committees, I think I am safe in saying that they make an effort to keep events accessible even for teams with limited financial resources. Therefore, they leave this open to ES to provide the best equipment possible; I would expect higher levels of competition (regionals, states, etc.) to make more of an effort to have good equipment than invitationals.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby Unome » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:59 pm

nicholasmaurer wrote:
trdd wrote:I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.


In a perfect world all ES would have access to high-quality measurement devices and use these for competition. However, this is not always practical or affordable. While I hesitate to speak for the rules committees, I think I am safe in saying that they make an effort to keep events accessible even for teams with limited financial resources. Therefore, they leave this open to ES to provide the best equipment possible; I would expect higher levels of competition (regionals, states, etc.) to make more of an effort to have good equipment than invitationals.

Only in Ohio are regionals and states generally better-run than invitationals :P
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby chalker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:40 pm

trdd wrote:I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.


In developing the rules, we tried several devices and found several cell phone apps that work pretty well. We'll be issuing an event supervisors guide with info sometime soon.

I'm curious though as to why you might be assuming that cell phone apps would be inherently error phone in terms of frequency measuring?

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby nicholasmaurer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:08 pm

chalker wrote:
trdd wrote:I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.


In developing the rules, we tried several devices and found several cell phone apps that work pretty well. We'll be issuing an event supervisors guide with info sometime soon.

I'm curious though as to why you might be assuming that cell phone apps would be inherently error phone in terms of frequency measuring?


Is it safe to assume you'll be including the specific apps/devices that you tested and can recommend?

As an aside, I myself did not know the ES guide existed until late last year. I even went to the trouble of making my own for the Solon invitational. Do you have any thoughts about how it could be made more visible to tournament directors and ES? There are several events this year (including Sounds) where I think a consistent message on equipment/tools would be very beneficial.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby dxu46 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Am I going crazy or do you not have to play a piece anymore, just a scale?
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:42 pm

dxu46 wrote:Am I going crazy or do you not have to play a piece anymore, just a scale?

That is correct. Interestingly though, there's a volume test.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby trdd » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:53 pm

chalker wrote:
trdd wrote:I wonder how accurate will the devices used at the competitions be. The better not use cell phone apps. I'm specifically talking about the frequency measuring device from the event or the event supervisor not the student's. There could be errors that will include a certain level of randomness into the measuring.

The rules for event supervisors should specify what device to get.


In developing the rules, we tried several devices and found several cell phone apps that work pretty well. We'll be issuing an event supervisors guide with info sometime soon.

I'm curious though as to why you might be assuming that cell phone apps would be inherently error phone in terms of frequency measuring?


We definitely need an ES guide so that both the ES and the students have the same measuring devices. That way, students can make their instruments for the device and the ES doesn't have a device that gives away too much error or too much noise in the frequency that will not allow them to accurately compute the cents for each pitch.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby lamppost » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:01 am

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:
dxu46 wrote:Am I going crazy or do you not have to play a piece anymore, just a scale?

That is correct. Interestingly though, there's a volume test.

For the volume test, the louder the better right? And since multiple attacks on the one pitch is allowed would it count as cheating if you make one pitch significantly louder than the rest when you're building your device? Or do all the pitches have to be the same volume throughout
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:23 am

lamppost wrote:
UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:
dxu46 wrote:Am I going crazy or do you not have to play a piece anymore, just a scale?

That is correct. Interestingly though, there's a volume test.

For the volume test, the louder the better right? And since multiple attacks on the one pitch is allowed would it count as cheating if you make one pitch significantly louder than the rest when you're building your device? Or do all the pitches have to be the same volume throughout

Yes, the louder the better. You can make one pitch significantly louder than the rest but it has to be part of the scale you play (which you conveniently get to choose). Also remember you can't make any adjustments after the pitch test (I don't think this really applies for your idea, but just in case).


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