Endothermic Task

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Endothermic Task

Postby Unome » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:13 am

See rule 4.b.ii

This task is identical to last year's.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby cuber » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:59 pm

SInce this task is allowed the use of electricity, would a temperature switch chip be ok to use?
The data sheet for one (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tmp708-q1.pdf) lists it as "resistor programmable", but does using a resistor really fit the spirit of this years ban on programmable electronics?

edit - Here's the data sheet for a chip with much more breadboard/prototype friendly packages: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/268/21440C-65386.pdf

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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby nicholasmaurer » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:08 pm

cuber wrote:SInce this task is allowed the use of electricity, would a temperature switch chip be ok to use?
The data sheet for one (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tmp708-q1.pdf) lists it as "resistor programmable", but does using a resistor really fit the spirit of this years ban on programmable electronics?


I would not consider "resistor programmable" components a violation of 3.i. It's certainly worth asking as an FAQ, but I'm fairly confident by "programmable" they mean IC which can have software installed onto them.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby cuber » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:23 pm

nicholasmaurer wrote:I would not consider "resistor programmable" components a violation of 3.i. It's certainly worth asking as an FAQ, but I'm fairly confident by "programmable" they mean IC which can have software installed onto them.


That was my line of thinking as well, and I doubt an ES would question whether a SOT package IC was programmable or not considering their resemblance to bulky transistors.

As a side note, the microcontroler ban is sort of a pain, but I'm also happy this year to be mucking around with analog circuits, I feel like the low level nature fits the spirit of scioly better.

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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby ET2020 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

cuber wrote:SInce this task is allowed the use of electricity, would a temperature switch chip be ok to use?
The data sheet for one (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tmp708-q1.pdf) lists it as "resistor programmable", but does using a resistor really fit the spirit of this years ban on programmable electronics?

Do you know where to purchase one of these? Last year my team used a temperature adjustable relay but that only works at 12V so I'm trying to find an alternative that can be powered by a 9V battery.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby chessbucket » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:59 pm

I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Digi ... Thermostat
I don't know if this is technically considered programmable though. Rules for the mission are horribly vague every single year it is an event imo. There are countless incidents of teams finding clever solutions to tasks only to be told 2 months later that what they did is illegal. lol
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby Boss » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:24 am

chessbucket wrote:I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Digi ... Thermostat
I don't know if this is technically considered programmable though. Rules for the mission are horribly vague every single year it is an event imo. There are countless incidents of teams finding clever solutions to tasks only to be told 2 months later that what they did is illegal. lol

Im pretty sure I see IC components

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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby ScottMaurer19 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Boss wrote:
chessbucket wrote:I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Digi ... Thermostat
I don't know if this is technically considered programmable though. Rules for the mission are horribly vague every single year it is an event imo. There are countless incidents of teams finding clever solutions to tasks only to be told 2 months later that what they did is illegal. lol

Im pretty sure I see IC components

There is no ban on IC components, just programmable boards.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby Unome » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:40 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
Boss wrote:
chessbucket wrote:I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Digi ... Thermostat
I don't know if this is technically considered programmable though. Rules for the mission are horribly vague every single year it is an event imo. There are countless incidents of teams finding clever solutions to tasks only to be told 2 months later that what they did is illegal. lol

Im pretty sure I see IC components

There is no ban on IC components, just programmable boards.

I was wondering about this rule earlier. Is there anything specific that it's intended to allow/disallow? I'm not very familiar with electronics.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby ScottMaurer19 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Unome wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote:
Boss wrote:Im pretty sure I see IC components

There is no ban on IC components, just programmable boards.

I was wondering about this rule earlier. Is there anything specific that it's intended to allow/disallow? I'm not very familiar with electronics.

From what I can tell, integrated circuits (ICs) themselves are not banned so things like a servo that--I believe contain an IC--but that do not allow for programs or software to be downloaded onto them are legal. An arduino on the other hand can be programmed and would be an IC that isn't allowed. ICs that are "resistor programmable" or that can be adjusted using an analog input in a similar fashion should be fine IMO.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby sciolycoach » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:15 pm

ICs that are "resistor programmable" or that can be adjusted using an analog input in a similar fashion should be fine IMO.


But wouldn't this violate rule 3i where it says Programmable components are not allowed? Looks like FAQ time...when it opens of course.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby nicholasmaurer » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:46 pm

sciolycoach wrote:
ICs that are "resistor programmable" or that can be adjusted using an analog input in a similar fashion should be fine IMO.


But wouldn't this violate rule 3i where it says Programmable components are not allowed? Looks like FAQ time...when it opens of course.


I have already submitted an FAQ for this - I am fairly confident they are referring to components which can have software installed.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby ScottMaurer19 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:36 pm

sciolycoach wrote:
ICs that are "resistor programmable" or that can be adjusted using an analog input in a similar fashion should be fine IMO.


But wouldn't this violate rule 3i where it says Programmable components are not allowed? Looks like FAQ time...when it opens of course.

programmable: able to be provided with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a task.
Changing the resistance would be a physical property and I would not view that as a 'coded instruction'
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby sciolycoach » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 pm

OK, seems reasonable to me. For the record I agree with you, and I like your argument about the changing resistance. I just like the idea of an FAQ on this because I see different event supervisors possibly interpreting this differently.
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Re: Endothermic Task

Postby Jacobi » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:57 pm

I would take the cautious approach and use an analog-output thermometer.

Even better, use an old fashioned red thermometer plus some sort of photogate to detect when it goes below a certain level.
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