Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

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DK808
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Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by DK808 » November 20th, 2018, 7:02 pm

Hi. New to this event so my question may seem silly. My team is designing a box that will have multi-levels with zig zag paths. They are planning to raise or lower the top level with the start line based on how many levels they will need (depending on the length of time). They will have a fixed start line on the top level. Is this raising or lowering of the top level against the rule about the start line cannot be adjusted? Or is the rule to prevent moving the start line forward/backward to adjust the time. Thanks!

cbrant554
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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by cbrant554 » November 21st, 2018, 1:08 pm

DK808 wrote:Hi. New to this event so my question may seem silly. My team is designing a box that will have multi-levels with zig zag paths. They are planning to raise or lower the top level with the start line based on how many levels they will need (depending on the length of time). They will have a fixed start line on the top level. Is this raising or lowering of the top level against the rule about the start line cannot be adjusted? Or is the rule to prevent moving the start line forward/backward to adjust the time. Thanks!
Rule 3.g The Start Line and Finish Line positions may not be adjusted after Impound. Parts and track can be added or removed by the overall dimensions of the device ma not change during the competition. They wont be given their target time before impound so where the exact point on your rollercoaster that is labeled start line is where they have to start. The area around the start line, per say, the length of the track it is on, can be changed during the 8 minuets that you have, but the spot cant change from one side of the roller coaster to another.

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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by Flavorflav » February 28th, 2019, 2:56 pm

cbrant554 wrote:
DK808 wrote:Hi. New to this event so my question may seem silly. My team is designing a box that will have multi-levels with zig zag paths. They are planning to raise or lower the top level with the start line based on how many levels they will need (depending on the length of time). They will have a fixed start line on the top level. Is this raising or lowering of the top level against the rule about the start line cannot be adjusted? Or is the rule to prevent moving the start line forward/backward to adjust the time. Thanks!
Rule 3.g The Start Line and Finish Line positions may not be adjusted after Impound. Parts and track can be added or removed by the overall dimensions of the device ma not change during the competition. They wont be given their target time before impound so where the exact point on your rollercoaster that is labeled start line is where they have to start. The area around the start line, per say, the length of the track it is on, can be changed during the 8 minuets that you have, but the spot cant change from one side of the roller coaster to another.
You didn't quite answer the question directly, but your reasoning would suggest that raising the level of the start or finish line would also be illegal. Does everyone agree with that interpretation?

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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by cbrant554 » February 28th, 2019, 3:11 pm

Flavorflav wrote:
cbrant554 wrote:
DK808 wrote:Hi. New to this event so my question may seem silly. My team is designing a box that will have multi-levels with zig zag paths. They are planning to raise or lower the top level with the start line based on how many levels they will need (depending on the length of time). They will have a fixed start line on the top level. Is this raising or lowering of the top level against the rule about the start line cannot be adjusted? Or is the rule to prevent moving the start line forward/backward to adjust the time. Thanks!
Rule 3.g The Start Line and Finish Line positions may not be adjusted after Impound. Parts and track can be added or removed by the overall dimensions of the device ma not change during the competition. They wont be given their target time before impound so where the exact point on your rollercoaster that is labeled start line is where they have to start. The area around the start line, per say, the length of the track it is on, can be changed during the 8 minuets that you have, but the spot cant change from one side of the roller coaster to another.

You didn't quite answer the question directly, but your reasoning would suggest that raising the level of the start or finish line would also be illegal. Does everyone agree with that interpretation?
I've seen a good amount of roller-coaster who do move there starting position up and down I think what they are referring to is that they cannot move it to a separate piece of track it has to stay on the same piece. I think the OP was right about the fact they dont want you moving back and forth for time constraints. I think the part I highlighted explains that.

builder83
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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by builder83 » March 1st, 2019, 7:09 am

You cannot move the starting position up or down as suggested. You could make a higher, fixed starting point and adjust the middle of the track however. Be careful because in the scenario you suggested even the finish line moves in elevation some.

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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by wade_curren » March 12th, 2019, 4:29 pm

Can we get a rule clarification for rule 3g in regards to the start and finish line positions. We have been told that raising the elevation of our device changes our start and finish position, even though the start and finished positions that are labeled do not change on our coaster. Our interpretation of the rule was that the competitor could not move the start line or finish line along the length of the track. Is our interpretation incorrect? At one Invitational competition we were told that we were fine with raising and lowering our device. At another Invitational we were told that our start and finish lines were changing as a result of us raising our device. Could someone please clarify this for us before our regional tournament in three weeks? Thanks!

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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by knightmoves » March 12th, 2019, 6:16 pm

wade_curren wrote:Could someone please clarify this for us before our regional tournament in three weeks? Thanks!
The only place you can get an official clarification is from the Science Olympiad organization, via the rules clarification form on the soinc website, or from your state organization via a similar method. What you get here are unofficial opinions.

If it helps, I have also heard the interpretation that you may not change the elevation of your start and finish points, from a coach that went to SOSI and heard it there. In particular, this was in reference to the style of coaster that is a flat board with tracks on, with the angle changed to target different run times - the advice from SOSI was that changing the angle of the flat board would move the start point, and so fall foul of this rule.

That's not official either, but it's the best I have (and it agrees with builder83's advice).

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Re: Start and finish line positions may not be adjusted?

Post by jander14indoor » March 12th, 2019, 8:03 pm

Reminder, this is UNOFFICIAL.
Let me also point to this phrase in the rules that seems like you might be overlooking:
cbrant554 wrote:Rule 3.g ... but the overall dimensions of the device may not change during the competition.
I point it out since it is a change from the prior year. It clearly outlaws the OLD tilting platform roller coasters where the highest point was the start line that could move up and down to adjust time.
At tournaments I've attended, they've clearly NOT allowed start and finish lines to move up, down sideways, whatever.
But ultimately, it will depend on your event supervisor, if you need a ruling at a regional, the best approach is for your COACH to contact the tournament director seeking clarification.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

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