Experimental Design B/C

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by sciencepeeps » April 3rd, 2017, 4:48 am

_deltaV wrote:For those of you that don't know the National ExpD supervisor is a little weird to say the least. I think we're all used to testing scientific principles like Hooke's Law or Snell's Law that produce a nice linear, exponential or other type of line graph. At nationals last year the topic was like food science or something involving food and the supervisor said she was looking for a non-line graph, like a bar graph. She basically wanted qualitative data press fit into a graph with materials that would have easily provided a linear relationship. Terrible way to run an event given the parameters, defeats the purpose of a lot of the sections and reduces the event to something middle schoolers would do.
Well, you are supposed to fit the type of graph to the experiment. We typically use line graphs for IVs with number values, and bar graphs for the others. Still though, her instructions are pretty weird. Qualitative data is not supposed to be graphed...
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by dxu46 » April 11th, 2017, 7:29 pm

sciencepeeps wrote:
_deltaV wrote:For those of you that don't know the National ExpD supervisor is a little weird to say the least. I think we're all used to testing scientific principles like Hooke's Law or Snell's Law that produce a nice linear, exponential or other type of line graph. At nationals last year the topic was like food science or something involving food and the supervisor said she was looking for a non-line graph, like a bar graph. She basically wanted qualitative data press fit into a graph with materials that would have easily provided a linear relationship. Terrible way to run an event given the parameters, defeats the purpose of a lot of the sections and reduces the event to something middle schoolers would do.
Well, you are supposed to fit the type of graph to the experiment. We typically use line graphs for IVs with number values, and bar graphs for the others. Still though, her instructions are pretty weird. Qualitative data is not supposed to be graphed...
I thought that if the IVs were numbers, then the experiment would be quantitative and have a line graph, and if the IVs were categories, or non-number things, then the experiment would be qualitative and you would have a bar graph! If you didn't have a graph for a qualitative experiment, then how would you represent the data in a similar way? Also, the checklist for this year (https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/fil ... 7Final.pdf) requires a graph, worth 10 points!

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by sciencepeeps » April 12th, 2017, 4:31 am

dxu46 wrote:
sciencepeeps wrote:
_deltaV wrote:For those of you that don't know the National ExpD supervisor is a little weird to say the least. I think we're all used to testing scientific principles like Hooke's Law or Snell's Law that produce a nice linear, exponential or other type of line graph. At nationals last year the topic was like food science or something involving food and the supervisor said she was looking for a non-line graph, like a bar graph. She basically wanted qualitative data press fit into a graph with materials that would have easily provided a linear relationship. Terrible way to run an event given the parameters, defeats the purpose of a lot of the sections and reduces the event to something middle schoolers would do.
Well, you are supposed to fit the type of graph to the experiment. We typically use line graphs for IVs with number values, and bar graphs for the others. Still though, her instructions are pretty weird. Qualitative data is not supposed to be graphed...
I thought that if the IVs were numbers, then the experiment would be quantitative and have a line graph, and if the IVs were categories, or non-number things, then the experiment would be qualitative and you would have a bar graph! If you didn't have a graph for a qualitative experiment, then how would you represent the data in a similar way? Also, the checklist for this year (https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/fil ... 7Final.pdf) requires a graph, worth 10 points!
Yes, but the graph, quantitative data, and qualitative data are differrent things. Say you were doing a qualitative experiment. You would still seperate the sections. What I was saying is, the graph should be the only place for graphing. Regardless of the IVs, the qualitative data section should list observations, not a graph.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by dxu46 » April 12th, 2017, 3:20 pm

sciencepeeps wrote:
dxu46 wrote:
sciencepeeps wrote: Well, you are supposed to fit the type of graph to the experiment. We typically use line graphs for IVs with number values, and bar graphs for the others. Still though, her instructions are pretty weird. Qualitative data is not supposed to be graphed...
I thought that if the IVs were numbers, then the experiment would be quantitative and have a line graph, and if the IVs were categories, or non-number things, then the experiment would be qualitative and you would have a bar graph! If you didn't have a graph for a qualitative experiment, then how would you represent the data in a similar way? Also, the checklist for this year (https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/fil ... 7Final.pdf) requires a graph, worth 10 points!
Yes, but the graph, quantitative data, and qualitative data are differrent things. Say you were doing a qualitative experiment. You would still seperate the sections. What I was saying is, the graph should be the only place for graphing. Regardless of the IVs, the qualitative data section should list observations, not a graph.
Of course you don't include the graph in qualitative ( :D )! But if the experiment is qualitative, you would still graph, right?

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by sciencepeeps » April 13th, 2017, 4:40 am

dxu46 wrote:
sciencepeeps wrote:
dxu46 wrote: I thought that if the IVs were numbers, then the experiment would be quantitative and have a line graph, and if the IVs were categories, or non-number things, then the experiment would be qualitative and you would have a bar graph! If you didn't have a graph for a qualitative experiment, then how would you represent the data in a similar way? Also, the checklist for this year (https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/fil ... 7Final.pdf) requires a graph, worth 10 points!
Yes, but the graph, quantitative data, and qualitative data are differrent things. Say you were doing a qualitative experiment. You would still seperate the sections. What I was saying is, the graph should be the only place for graphing. Regardless of the IVs, the qualitative data section should list observations, not a graph.
Of course you don't include the graph in qualitative ( :D )! But if the experiment is qualitative, you would still graph, right?
Of course. Otherwise you would lose a ton of points.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by OrigamiPlanet » August 6th, 2017, 12:26 pm

This might seem like a really pointless question, but could we use the TI-NSpire calculator? My concern is that it does allow one to use notes, unless it was activated on test mode, where it locks you from using notes. I don't know if the supervisor would allow the use of it or not. :-/
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by dxu46 » August 6th, 2017, 1:09 pm

OrigamiPlanet wrote:This might seem like a really pointless question, but could we use the TI-NSpire calculator? My concern is that it does allow one to use notes, unless it was activated on test mode, where it locks you from using notes. I don't know if the supervisor would allow the use of it or not. :-/
If you look on the 2016-17 division B rules manual, it says that you can use "any kind of calculator" under "EVENT PARAMETERS." It should be the same of division C. It isn't prohibited, but it might be considered as a violation of the spirit of the problem. The safest thing to do would be to ask the event supervisor. If he/she doesn't allow the notes part, then you may consider asking him/her to watch you turn test mode on or do it himself. Either way, don't risk it. It's not worth possibly getting DQ'ed over it.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by Uber » August 6th, 2017, 1:25 pm

OrigamiPlanet wrote:This might seem like a really pointless question, but could we use the TI-NSpire calculator? My concern is that it does allow one to use notes, unless it was activated on test mode, where it locks you from using notes. I don't know if the supervisor would allow the use of it or not. :-/
Yes you can. I used one at nationals and every other competition.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Post by Unome » August 6th, 2017, 1:56 pm

OrigamiPlanet wrote:This might seem like a really pointless question, but could we use the TI-NSpire calculator? My concern is that it does allow one to use notes, unless it was activated on test mode, where it locks you from using notes. I don't know if the supervisor would allow the use of it or not. :-/
The rules say "any kind of calculator" but do not explicitly mention a prohibition on notes - hence, from a strict reading of the event rules only, there is nothing preventing the use of calculators of that type. However, as dxu46 noted, they could violate the "spirit of the problem" clause in General Rule 1, depending on your event supervisor's interpretation.

I would recommend bringing in a backup calculator (something more definitively allowable) and asking the event supervisor beforehand whether you can use the TI-NSpire; if you find out ahead of time you can just use the backup, but if the event supervisor discovers it during the competition and decides that it's disallowed you are more likely to have to deal with a significant penalty, including possibly disqualification.
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